aj

thanks for the earlier insight into the quote from the astrologer about 3 marriages and yogananda having saturn in the 2nd which can bring this about - saturn is ruler of the 7th... does this have to do with the fact the 2nd house is the 8th house from the 7th, using derivative houses? having the lord of the 7th in the 8th house from the 7th - does this bring it on, or is it more to do with saturn itself? any thoughts on that? thanks..

now as to your comment about the role of the trine lords, what you are essentially saying here is that because mars is in the 8th house in pisces, the benefit of mars in any of the charts is washed away... even if mars is elevated due it being in scorpio in the D9 chart, it doesn't hold much water in terms of it being a benefic here.. am i reading you correctly here, specifically in reading the D9 chart? how would you view the planet jupiter - another trine lord, in pisces, but in the 8th as well? also - would the conjunction by sign of the 5th and 9th lord offset any of this? thanks..

AJ wrote: James: As a very general principle, yes, the trikona lords are beneficial, but if the lord of the trinal house is debilitated, badly placed, and/or afflicted, there is no magic erasure of the negative impact on that planet and house. Trikona lords are not always beneficial in that sense.

stefan

i see you are using the mean, as opposed to the true node to get rahu in the 8th in the D12 chart.. do i have that correct?

AJ wrote: To piggyback on Stephan's post, the death of PY's father on August 1, 1942, was in the main and sub-period of Rahu. Natally, Rahu is in the 9th house of father and in D12 Rahu is in the 9th house associated with D12 8th lord the Sun. The Sun is also a natural karaka for father. PY's father lived to the ripe old age of 89.

aj - i see rahu in the 9th in the 2059 chart, but you are losing me on this part of your comment - "...in D12 Rahu is in the 9th house associated with D12 8th lord the Sun." it looks like you are using true nodes to get rahu in the 9th with the 8th house lord of D12 - sun - in the 9th...

this little difference of true, verses mean node can make a difference in the higher harmonic charts.. i have seen this in my own chart...

apparently the D20 chart in indian astrology has some bearing on a persons religious or spiritual involvement and inclinations.. here is an interesting link which coincidentally uses yoganandas chart to focus on the D20 chart... unfortunately the author of the site doesn't give the time they use for p yogananda and they have a different chart then the one i am getting off 2059 time... here is the link below..

https://astrozing.com/vimsamsa-division ... rth-chart/

here is the D20 chart i get using the 2059 time immediately below..



regarding the death of yoganandas father - it is interesting the dasa you point out aj... also, i was curious to look at the solar arc directions for this date 1 aug 1942, to yoganandas 2059 chart and i see 2 connections.. first - sa sun has reached the 7th house cusp of the 2059 chart - and 7th has a direct association with the concept of death as i understand it - the setting sun.. also sa mars is making an exact square to natal moon in leo.. because natal mars is in the 8th and because the moon rules the 12th house of the 2059 chart, it brings together another symbolic reference to family, father and a death taking place... i suspect, but don't know - yogananda was in the usa at the time and not around for his fathers death... below is a screenshot of the biwheel with 2059 chart on the inside and solar arc directions for 1 aug 1942 on the outside..

James , AJ, Therese and others:

About some things discussed here about Paramahansa Yogananda's chart:

Yogananda feels like he played a role in my life at a time in the middle 80ies when I was in a searching mode
and came across this book "Autobiography of a Yogi". I felt the vibe and the sometimes extensive explanations
of the yogic spiritual cosmology in it that really blew my mind at that point. It further led to me intensifying my yogic studies,
and so it played an important part in my understanding the role of the universal 'Guru priniciple' - this led to me finding a Guru and being
initiated 1987, coincidently the same month as a Solar eclipse on my 1987 birthday ! That year was crucial in my life and changing me forever, and still is the
path I am following. So I am fond of that book still. As it led to my current lineage of masters and initiation, with Mantra and yogic 'Sadhana' ( spiritual practices).

I am not sure about the time for him. And have not the focus at the moment to settle on it either. I feel that using Lahiri ayanamsha the later time
20:59 was striking, looking quickly at the event of the mothers death, in the divisional chart for parents, (Dwadashamsha) and the planetary periods landing straight in the
8th house - this is intriguing and I will probably look further into it later.
But I have earlier in the ADB link on the astrodienst forum made a comment (not a rectification due to lack of events) about a possible time of 20:30 about.
I don't remember how I came up with it and techniques used. May return to it and post some material from that here later....

But one thing that concerns me about the 20:59 later time is that it looses an important spiritual combination ( yoga), that show renunciation, and is
a classical indication for that in the Jyotish scriptures. It is something like when the Navamsha, Moon is in a martial sign and aspected by Saturn This yoga shows renunciation of the world, like in monks and yogis et.c.
This is true in Yoganandas chart before a time of 20:34 when the Moon in the Navamsha changes to Taurus, and the spiritual yoga is no longer present in his chart.
This yoga is I think discussed in the landmark book Light on life by Hart deFow and in other analyses of the chart.

Also if one studies for example a giant monk, yoga, Avatar and mystic in the Hindu spiritual world "Ramakrishna" he have the same yoga of renunciation;
In Ramakrishnas Navamsha chart; the Moon in a martial sign aspected by saturn ( by the three sign aspect).
https://astrologicalmusings.com/astrolo ... rituality/
(See analysis of Ramakrishnas chart in this link)

This fact concerns me a little about a later time than 20:34 for Yogananda. But as said I have not looked into it enough.

About the Nodes: My vedic software was set on the mean node. My teacher used the true node and that is also been used by me.
Nowadays I am using the mean node for tropical astrology.

stefan

thanks for sharing all this!

what exactly is renunciation anyway? is it stepping away from worldy pursuits to pursue a deeper connection to a higher vision or connection with god? i think it is..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sannyasa

i had read something similar to your viewpoint on moon in navamsa having a malefic influence as necessary and i mentioned this earlier in the thread.. in fact, aj and i were sort of discussing this some with the idea of mars in the 8th in pisces being a problem even in the read of the navamsa chart, even though mars rules the 9th of both charts... is mars a malefic influence on the moon in the navamsa chart - yes or no? obviously it is not easy to answer these types of questions....


thanks for sharing your perspective on the issue of the best time for him here. i continue to believe the 2059 chart works, but i could be completely wrong... i also note the 45 with jupiter in pisces to the midheaven degree of the 2059 chart. this 8th house jupiter is an influence on the midheaven makes sense to me.. the time from ajs book is 2057 which fits even better.. below is my paraphrasing of vp goels book on navamsha which i mentioned earlier in this thread..

james_m wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 4:29 pm the topic of the moon that i mentioned in the previous paragraph - he states this has to do with mental strength... for devotion of any karma, we need determination. devotion needs concentrated effort for long duration.. moon must have capacity to sustain adversity.. the malefic influence on the moon is required..

i seem to recall having a book with some of the yogas for sannyasas... i wish i could find it...

There is so much I'd like to respond to on this interesting thread, but I'm tied up time-wise this week. I do want to respond to Stefan's comments about renunciation. Ramakrishna was a true renunciate in every sense of the word. He lived in one small room in the Dakshineswar temple, and had no personal possessions of any value. If we take the meaning of "renunciation" to include the lack of material possessions, that was Ramakrishna's life.

In contrast Yogananda was the head of the Self Realization headquarters in Los Angeles (a large building that I think was once a hotel?), and he had two other ashrams that I know of. So in the material sense, Yogananda wasn't a renunciate. His renunciation was completely internal. So this situation might make a difference in the astrological picture for renunciation? Also Yogananda received large monetary donations from his followers and disciples.

Yes thinks to ponder about the state of renunciation.

I want to add that in modern astrology one key "Renunciation factor" is Saturn/Neptune connections.

It is I think Ebertin who gave this combo in his COSI ( Combination of Stellar Influences).
I have found it often true in Monks charts. Some examples come to mind:

Yogananda ( Saturn Neptune trine)

Vivekananda ( Opposition)

Ramakrishna ( Square)

Pope Francis (opposition)

Stefan, you've discovered a very important principle for renunciation in linking Saturn and Neptune. This is a perfect illustration of why it seems to be necessary to include the trans Saturnian planets at least in the charts of spiritual seekers. One of my sisters is a Catholic nun, and a true renunciate. I don't know if all religious orders work the same way, but she has no ownership of anything as all salaries for work (She has been a teacher...), government payments in social security, etc. go directly to the order. Then the nuns have to requisition any proceeds they might need for personal expenses.

Anyway, my sister has always been very devotional and has given her life totally to God. I just checked her birth chart. She has Saturn in 11 Gemini near the 4th cusp in partile square to Neptune at 11 Virgo near cusp 7. This configuration carries through to the navamsa chart: Saturn in Capricorn, Neptune in Aries.

Stefan, you wrote:

And so Autobiography of a Yogi played an important part in my understanding the role of the universal 'Guru priniciple' - this led to me finding a Guru and being initiated 1987, coincidentally the same month as a Solar eclipse on my 1987 birthday ! ... So I am fond of that book still. As it led to my current lineage of masters and initiation, with Mantra and yogic 'Sadhana' ( spiritual practices).

Thank you for this story. When someone I know is confused about their spiritual path, I suggest that they read AoY, and if that particular path doesn't appeal to them, they may very well soon be led in another direction that is right for them. Steve Jobs left a box of copies of AoY to be given to all attendees at his funeral.

Yes, Ebertin has listed for Saturn/Neptune: suffering, renunciation, asceticism (The Combination of Stellar Influences, p. 186) But then he lists some psychological attributes that may not be accurate.

Stefan, you've discovered a very important principle for renunciation in linking Saturn and Neptune. This is a perfect illustration of why it seems to be necessary to include the trans Saturnian planets at least in the charts of spiritual seekers. One of my sisters is a Catholic nun, and a true renunciate. I don't know if all religious orders work the same way, but she has no ownership of anything as all salaries for work (She has been a teacher...), government payments in social security, etc. go directly to the order. Then the nuns have to requisition any proceeds they might need for personal expenses.

Yes, Ebertin has listed for Saturn/Neptune: suffering, renunciation, asceticism (The Combination of Stellar Influences, p. 186) But then he lists some psychological attributes that may not be accurate.

Yes I think that is a kind of 'renunciation' of a high order where saturn as the traditional ruler of seclusion and turning on oneself, is combining with the spiritual Neptune attunement of merging with the Oneness.

Lower materialisation of Saturn/Neptune might be the urge to 'give up' . To resign to an commitment et.c. I have myself the square from saturn to Neptune and can feel this play out when it is activated. There is a sense of "what's the use" or " I can just give up" thoughts like that. Then there is the better spectrum where one can aim for higher ideals and give up attachments to the ephemeral passing things which is a better way of experiencing this energy.

Anyway, my sister has always been very devotional and has given her life totally to God. I just checked her birth chart. She has Saturn in 11 Gemini near the 4th cusp in partile square to Neptune at 11 Virgo near cusp 7.

Fascinating...

And it expresses a point I was about to add here:
Saturn Neptune is a bit of a generational aspect that may preferable need to be attached to the angles or 'Lights' in the chart in order to have a personal expression.
So your sister has this aspect angular and it plays out in her life in a strong way.

The same is true for Vivekananda who has saturn neptune with the Moon giving it a personal expression.
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Vivekananda,_Swami

Ramakrishna has Saturn Neptune angular.
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ramakrishna

One more argument for the 20:59 time for Paramahansa Yogananda !
where Neptune on MC trine Saturn.
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Yo ... aramahansa

Pope Francis has saturn 45' semisquare MC


.