Kira Sutherland, a medical astrologer said in a seminar (ref below) that signs and houses share the same meaning.
At least in medical astrology. ----------
On a side note, the derivative house relationship
9th House
11 of 11 Friends of friends. A hope of freedom. The protection of a friend. The hostess. A meeting room. A political association. A humanitarian project.

11th House
3 of 9 Travel documents, passport etc. Legal language. A travel journal. An esoteric bookstore. A travel agency. Brother-in-law's sister. Travel partners. The logbook of a navigator. Geographical maps, atlases. Religious processions and pilgrimages. Speak a foreign language. Telepathy. The paths of knowledge.

(La Technique des maisons dérivés - Charles Carlana - Editions Dervy, 1997)

Jane:
From his Mundane Astrology, interesting.
I have it as a pdf, is it any good? Or Zain's materials in general?
If my memory doesn't do me a disservice, Zain was a NY based astrologer, I think he was Zoller's teacher...

Ouranos:
Am familiar of Kira,
The derived house meanings are nice, I wonder why hostess...

Dima Gur wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 3:42 pm Jane:
From his Mundane Astrology, interesting.
I have it as a pdf, is it any good? Or Zain's materials in general?
If my memory doesn't do me a disservice, Zain was a NY based astrologer, I think he was Zoller's teacher...

Hi Dima, I think you are mixing Zain up with Zoltan Mason. C.C. Zain was the alias used by Elbert Benjamin when he wrote 22 texts for the Brotherhood of Light which, if my memory serves right, was the US off-shoot of the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor. The astrology is not quite traditional, not quite modern. It uses the Sun, Moon, traditional planets and Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto (as the upper octave of the Moon, not Mars). He does not use the Nodes, or any lots. Planets act according to their house position even if they are near the cusp of the following house. They extend and amplify the work of Burgoyne’s “Light of Egypt”

For predictive work, Secondary Progressions (1 day of ephemeris motion = 1 year), Tertiary Minor Progressions (Moon’s ephemeris motion to natal position, roughly every two weeks, if memory serves), and Transits as triggers to major progressed planets in aspect that are reinforced by aspects from a minor progressed planet. He also developed a system of Cosmodynes (aka Astrodynes) to determine the power and harmony or disharmony of each planet.

His Mundane Astrology differs from what appears to be the standard only in his use of planet declination cycles; each new cycle begins when the planet moves from 0S00 declination to 0N00 declination. The cycle planet’s transit aspects to the cycle chart are the only aspects tracked in each individual cycle chart.

Delineation is mainly event oriented with a focus on how to improve one’s character , strengthen weaknesses, mitigate bad aspects. The texts cover everything from Weather Prediction, Horary, to Spiritual Astrology, Occultism, Tarot, and Masonic practices. For a solid grounding in astrology Zain’s and Doris Chase Doane’s texts are hard to beat although Zain’s can be a bit of a slog, most were written in the late 20’s thru early 50’s, I think.

Jane:
You're right, it was Zoltan Mason
And thanks for that quick intro into C. C. Zain's work.

Astrojin:

The affinity scheme with the joys, the chaldean order and thema mundi is great.
I tried to find the 'thema mundi affinity to houses' part in different sources, but wasn't able to find something.

Question:
How can we know for sure that the house positions of planets in the thema mundi by domicile and exaltation are meant to be illustrative, in terms of affinities between those planets and houses?

Dima Gur wrote: Question:
How can we know for sure that the house positions of planets in the thema mundi by domicile and exaltation are meant to be illustrative, in terms of affinities between those planets and houses?

Hi Dima ... Valens, in Book IV.12, gives an example that the signs carry the indications of their thema mundi houses:

“In any nativity Gemini and Sagittarius have the same general effect as the Place of Slaves because of their zodiacal position: when Cancer is in the Ascendant, the Place of Slaves falls in these signs. So even when a native has the Place of Slaves in another sign, but has malefics in the these (Gemini or Sagittarius), he will experience disturbances and injuries from slaves, even penalties, death, and flight, especially if Saturn is int these Places.

”If benefics are in these Places, the native will be thought well of <by slaves> and will receive benefits from them, and he himself will be a benefactor of slaves, or will indeed raise some, treating them as his children. Consider the same to be true for the rest of the Places which precede centers.”

By implication, the same would hold true for the other house/sign relationships.

Firmicus, in III.I describes the Thema Mundi (Chart of the World) and connects the planet/sign/houses:

"They even want the fates of men to be managed according to this nativity, and according to these sects of the stars, and according to the testimonies which bear witness to this nativity, and according to these relationships,..., of course so that nothing in the individual nativities of men would seem to be alien to this nativity of the world." (Dykes trans. p 157-8)

And he goes on to describe each planets position and relationship to the Sun and Moon; and later says "The nativity of the world was put together with the divine interpretation of inference,..., [and] handed down to us, so this may be an example for us to follow in the nativities of men"

Hope that's of some help.

Jane:
Wow.
Thanks for the citations.
Well, I need to reassess what I think about the houses then.
Now, it will be in the light of their Thema Mundi placements.
In addition to their other affinities, that is.

Hi Dima:

Question:
How can we know for sure that the house positions of planets in the thema mundi by domicile and exaltation are meant to be illustrative, in terms of affinities between those planets and houses?

Jane has beaten me in responding. I could not have done better...!

C. C. Zain and the Church of Light do not use Tertiary (1 day = 1 lunar month) progressions. They use Minor progressions (1 lunar month = 1 year).
They also calculate Minor progressions based on the phase angle between the natal Sun and Moon applied to the transiting Sun to calculate the Minor progressed Moon.
Note: I found Tertiary progressions to be pretty much useless until I calculated them based on the Sidereal day rather than the Solar day.

Dima Gur wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:08 pm What do you think about the 9th and the 11th in terms of the following symbolism:
Ideology, activism and truth.

It seems to me that both the 9th and 11th share some of that symbolism, but that in the 9th it's more about 'living your truth' while in the 11th it's more about expressing and talking about a person's truth.
That is, that the 11th is more intellectual and social and the 9th is more physical and about embodiment.

Classically the 9th is mainly associated with higher education, travel, and belief or god. So the latter themes may fall under the umbrella of "beliefs".

What do you think?
Anything to add?
A different opinion?

https://www.academia.edu/117326044/Debo ... e_sky_1_1_