i was looking yesterday thru the search feature of skyscript for a post i thought i had done on julian assange, but couldn't find anything.. i was surprised, because i, along with a lot of other astrologers have pondered what the chart is for many years.. i was never really convinced of the legitimacy of any of them, although astrodatabank seems to have settled on the 3pm - clearly an approx time - as opposed to the 205pm, or an 1105am chart that i have from the past..
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Assange,_Julian

someone, sometime ago made the observation that elon musks birthdate is close to this - june 28th 1971, and as memory serves some other well known people, too but they are not on the top of my memory at the moment.. maybe later it will come to me... i was thinking mars in aquarius on the nodal axis, but that was before i switched to sidereal.. now it is mars in cap on the nodal axis, lol.... where is the revolutionary in all of this?

so, let me talk briefly about the 3pm tentative chart.. i think it has some merit, but i never liked how the self sacrificing planets neptune and saturn where in opposition right on the ascendant axis.. maybe it fits however, even if it is not 3pm exactly... what i think does fit is moon in the 12th as ruler of the 9th.. he's been a political prisoner for challenging the powers that be, specifically highlighting the illegal actions of the usa with regard to its actions in iraq.. that is what really made him enemy number 1 to the usa and by proxy - uk... below is the 3pm chart in sidereal..



maybe the 12th house moon in libra might explain how the initial trigger for locking him up in solitary confinement prison in the uk was the issue of sexual inproprieties in sweden.. he temporarily evaded being sent back to sweden for fear of being sent to the usa, and instead found an alternative in the equador embassy for a number of years, before an equador leadership change led to a more pliant leader beholden to usa and presto - assange could no longer stay at the embassy and in legal limbo, but instead in solitary confinement in the uk.. if anyone ever thought we lived in a democracy, as opposed to a system where might makes right - they could no longer confused about what was what in this particular example...

maybe julians fate is also connected to the 8th house sun - so moon in 12th and sun in the 8th - 2 of the challenging houses in astrology are engaged with both lights of this chart.. alternatively using solar and lunar houses - saturn is in the suns 12th house, while saturn is in the moons 8th house.. i like looking at solar and lunar house positions as i think they are important.. this implies a type of challenging energy for julian to process as any relationship with either his moon or dad - if you think of the moon and sun representing the parents - would not be an especially easy one.. i believe his parents were separated, but can't recall the details.. i still have the book - julian assange, the unauthorised autobiography from 2011 on my bookshelf.. this is the book where the 3pm time reference has come from..

what to make of neptune right on the ascendant?? idealistic? in opposition to saturn on the descendant - self sacrificing and running into conflict in relationships, especially ones more worldly in nature?? the opposition implies an inability, but an ongoing attempt to integrate the 2 energies... if the world was different, the idealism of revealing a gov'ts corruption would be welcomed, but not by the gov'ts themselves who saw it as a direct threat to their ongoing secrecy and covert actions... you combine this with the 2 lights in the 8th and 12th houses and you have a recipe for a person living a very tough life!! but maybe i am getting ahead of myself... jupiter is also close to this 3 pm chart ascendant... the religious or political zealot is implied in a position such as this too and again - in opposition to saturn, it is going to run into strong opposition as well.. that is a 4 degree opposition so it is not insignificant... of course julian had access to secrets - jupiter in scorpio fits - and he wanted to let the world know, as opposed to waiting for the cia to reveal the details 50 or 100 years later... in this regard the conservative energy of saturn in taurus in opposition to his ideological earnestness was very much an ongoing tug of war, played out over the years by those who believed in everything julian was doing, and those who didn't... add to the jupiter, a mercury in trine to jupiter from the 9th - that gives it more shape and colour... he had access to info that most people didn't... it was ''illegal'' to have it.. in fact, the mercury is 60 pluto which is in turn 60 jupiter, so i can see how his mercury in the 9th - ruler of sun in 8th, is very well connected...

oh, then there is mars in his solar 8th house - again -me using solar houses... exalted in capricorn and ruling his ascendant and 6th house.. well, this is a person not so easily dismissed!

lets look at the solar return for this year - still in effect, prior to his birthday in about a week on july 3rd... what in this chart says ''freedom'' after all these years?? thoughts anyone?? of course the angles may be off if the 3pm is off, which i suspect it is..



interesting how the ascendant and 12th house ruler is saturn in its own sign here and just back of the ascendant about 14 degrees... maybe he is let out of one prison but steps into a different sort of one?? the chart is almost an exact full moon - sun at 17 gemini 16 and moon at 17 sag 57 - less then a degree out... generally full moons are thought to be fortuitous, although some speculate not when they are so close as this... thoughts?? the part of fortune reflects this relationship by being exactly on the descendant degree... the sun and moon are both in a nice aspectual relationship with jupiter in the whole sign house 3rd...

their is a close square with venus and uranus in this chart - venus rules the 4/9 houses.... uranus is in a nice sextile to the rising degree and although it is a square to venus, the ruler of both the 4/9 here does seem to suggest freedom of sorts, but maybe at a particular cost which is not immediately apparent or obvious to me..

indian astrology likes it when the 9 and 10th house rulers are in a relationship with each other.. it is called a raja yoga and highlights a real positive... although they are in an out of sign conjunction, at 3 degrees of separation - maybe it can still qualify?? i don't know if it is a raja yoga with the 4 and 10th lords - the same two here - venus and mars - but it might be... again - favourable...

and finally - here is a biwheel with the tentative 3pm chart on the inside and the solar return for 2023 on the outside... the most obvious connection is venus in the solar return at 28 cap - in the square to uranus at 28 - both directly aspecting the 3pm midheaven at 26 cancer 36.... that is a close square involving the 2 and the 3pm midheaven axis.. they also directly engage assanges exalted mars at 28 capricorn... this might be enough? maybe the chart for 3pm is fairly close to the right time for him... no one was making a prediction he would be released that i know of...



what do the primary direction gurus get off his 3pm chart?? anything??

here is a post from marjorie orr on this.. i share hugh fowlers commentary and views in the comment section... he seems to make the most sense..
https://star4cast.com/julian-assange-an ... /#comments

james_m wrote: i was looking yesterday thru the search feature of skyscript for a post i thought i had done on julian assange, but couldn't find anything.. i was surprised, because i, along with a lot of other astrologers have pondered what the chart is for many years.. i was never really convinced of the legitimacy of any of them, although astrodatabank seems to have settled on the 3pm - clearly an approx time - as opposed to the 205pm, or an 1105am chart that i have from the past..
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Assange,_Julian

Hi James, I agree that the 3 p.m. chart is likely an approximation, but I think it has some teeth; so perhaps it's a pretty close approximation. One thing that leads me to believe this is how Jupiter's transits are tied into the timeline of his run-ins with authority. If you want to take a look for yourself, check out: December 2006, the month WikiLeaks posted its first leak: Assange had just had a Jupiter return, and then transiting Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter all came together near the ascendant degree.*

Assange has an interesting natal setup: Jupiter collects light from both Mercury and Mars in the chart (who are not in aspect to one another). in general, Mercury-Mars combos can be seen as HACKER, information about the military, angering others with information, damaging information, reckless sharing of information, etc. Jupiter has a general tendency to spread and give life to things and brings concerns with law and judgment.

His natal Jupiter is in the 12th and retrograde - traditionally, this is not a very fortunate Jupiter. Or, to put it another way, it's a Jupiter that offers fortune because that's what Jupiter does, but at a heavy price.

james_m wrote:someone, sometime ago made the observation that elon musks birthdate is close to this - june 28th 1971, and as memory serves some other well known people, too but they are not on the top of my memory at the moment.. maybe later it will come to me...i wa s thinking mars in aquarius on the nodal axis, but that was before i switched to sidereal.. now it is mars in cap on the nodal axis, lol.... where is the revolutionary in all of this?

[bold mine]

Regardless of sign, Mars is opposed the MC: an enemy of the authority or state? Or, seen from another perspective, to incur the wrath of the homeland? Also, Saturn is opposite the Ascendant: lengthy trials; harsh, superior open enemies, etc.

Just a few thoughts I had.

*And if you take the time to look into some of the other key dates for significant events related to his timeline, you'll note some interesting things, like: His entering the Ecuadorian embassy in June 2012 coincided with Jupiter opposing the 3pm chart's Ascendant—the same place it is now when we have him pleading out of all his troubles.

hi jason!

good to see you.. i was wondering where you disappeared to....

the post i made was a stream of consciousness type post.. by the time i had made it to the end, i realized too that the 3pm chart seems very close in terms of accuracy... i was thinking maybe a few minutes later to put mars even closer to the ic point.. maybe 303pm or something with the midheaven at more like 27-28 cancer... this would move the ascendant forward a degree or so... this was what i was thinking by the time i ended that post and it sounds very different then how i started the post.. it is difficult finding specific dates, but the examples you've given with transits to the month are still better then nothing... i am sure the date of his move into the equador embassy is available somewhere, but i can't find it on the wikipedia page... however, an important date is given of october 4th, 2006 as to when wikileaks was launched.. if you look at this date - saturn is at 27-28 cancer - opposite his natal mars.. i am wondering if this adds to the idea of a slightly later time of 303pm, along with some other observations i was making off the 2023 solar return specifically with the venus-uranus square at 28 cardinal with mars is via sidereal zodiac?? if the uranus/venus square in the 2023 solar return was exactly at the midheaven degree, this would lend merit to the idea of a radical change in the living circumstances and all that has happened in the past 2 weeks...

if you can get some specific dates to those monthly dates, that would be great.. if not - i get it...

i still think this box idea on houses is for the birds... jupiter so close to the ascendant is very much a first house planet for me, in spite of whether it is one or two degrees behind the ascendant... but i am not going to rant about this - although i guess i am here a wee bit already!! ptolemy came up with the 5 degrees behind the ascendant as still having great bearing on the angle... one can use this recipe if they like sticking to traditionalist ideology too, lol!

thanks so much for your input!

james_m wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:13 pm i still think this box idea on houses is for the birds... jupiter so close to the ascendant is very much a first house planet for me, in spite of whether it is one or two degrees behind the ascendant... but i am not going to rant about this - although i guess i am here a wee bit already!! ptolemy came up with the 5 degrees behind the ascendant as still having great bearing on the angle... one can use this recipe if they like sticking to traditionalist ideology too, lol!

Hi James, just adding my 2 cents..

I think the ‘box’ idea of treating a 12th house planet close to the ASC as a 12th house planet works well if you add the criteria that its 12th house activities strongly influence the 1st; which appears very true for Assange, Jupiter delayed his actual imprisonment for roughly 12 years, he then spent approx 2 years (I think), in a British prison, and then he was released (Jupiter) and allowed to go home (Mars dispositor in 4th) Not a scenario you’d expect from a solely 1st house Jupiter.

hi jane

thanks for offering your insights and viewpoint here...

i think it is much more complicated then ''jupiter in box 12'', given the fact saturn is directly on the descendant and neptune directly on the ascendant... as always astrologers will view all these types of ideas differently, but perhaps the biggest challenge is to incorporate a number of divergent energies which is typically the case and definitely the case here...

fwiw - i have a few planets very close to the ascendant axis in my own chart.. i have spent a good chunk of my life trying to understand just how all this works and i haven't come to this position lightly, or in the absence of my own first hand experience of my own chart! but i am long since past trying to convince other astrologers of my own vantage point on all this.. however i still feel motivated to share my own perspective, especially when it is different... i view the angles as crests of a wave, as opposed to solid boxes where everything has to fit in, one or the other... cheers..

James,

One aspect I look at with Angular planets is Right Ascencion
Where are the planets on the Ecliptic in the Local Sphere?
It can be off by 6 degrees sometimes.
Quick look for your 3pm chart in Tropical

ASC 1Sag59
JU 27Sc18 RA 25Sc13 Off by 2 degrees More in the 12th
NE 0Sg43 RA 28Sc36 Off by 2 degrees 12th

4th 19Aqu57
MA 21Aq33 RA 25Aq35 Off by 4 degrees! 4th
NN 16Aq16 RA 18Aq43 Closer to the 4th

7th 1Gem59
SA 1Gem40 RA 29Tau58 Slightly behind by 2 degrees 6th

Ouranos

hi ouranos

thanks for this additional insight... i know it looks different based on the zodiac one uses - as to whether it is a planet rising in the same sign, or one out of sign and more associated with the 12th - as it does with the tropical zodiac 3pm time.. even with the 3pm time - i get 4 degrees and change of jupiter to ascendant.. jupiter at 3 scorpio 56 05, and ascendant at 8 scorpio 38 02 - ... almost 5 degrees difference...

if i change the time to 303pm i get jupiter at same degree/minute/sec, but ascendant changes to 9 scorpio 38 02 - so that is a bit less then 6 degrees out..


is an equatorial ascendant relevant to right ascension?? i think it is..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equatorial_ascendant

i get an equatorial ascendant of 1 scorpio 22 07 off the 3pm chart and 2 scorpio 06 04... i believe these are sidereal zodiac degrees, but with morninus software, i am not sure... if the equatorial ascendant is correct and in sidereal, this would put jupiter ''in box number 1'' hopefully someone can share a chart of what it looks like.. i can generate a feature off morinus of a ''mundane'' chart, but it doesn't seem much different from the regular charts i have already shared..

on a related topic - i read this substack article and felt it captured some of my thoughts that are swirling around here with regard to this wider topic being broached.. - ''transcending our left brain limitations''
https://alexkrainer.substack.com/p/tran ... imitations

james_m wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:13 pm hi jason!

good to see you.. i was wondering where you disappeared to....

Hey James, good to see you too! I've been living a more 'unplugged' sort of existence these days.

james_m wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:13 pm the post i made was a stream of consciousness type post.. by the time i had made it to the end, i realized too that the 3pm chart seems very close in terms of accuracy... i was thinking maybe a few minutes later to put mars even closer to the ic point.. maybe 303pm or something with the midheaven at more like 27-28 cancer... this would move the ascendant forward a degree or so... this was what i was thinking by the time i ended that post and it sounds very different then how i started the post.. it is difficult finding specific dates, but the examples you've given with transits to the month are still better then nothing... i am sure the date of his move into the equador embassy is available somewhere, but i can't find it on the wikipedia page... however, an important date is given of october 4th, 2006 as to when wikileaks was launched.. if you look at this date - saturn is at 27-28 cancer - opposite his natal mars.. i am wondering if this adds to the idea of a slightly later time of 303pm, along with some other observations i was making off the 2023 solar return specifically with the venus-uranus square at 28 cardinal with mars is via sidereal zodiac?? if the uranus/venus square in the 2023 solar return was exactly at the midheaven degree, this would lend merit to the idea of a radical change in the living circumstances and all that has happened in the past 2 weeks...

if you can get some specific dates to those monthly dates, that would be great.. if not - i get it...

i still think this box idea on houses is for the birds... jupiter so close to the ascendant is very much a first house planet for me, in spite of whether it is one or two degrees behind the ascendant... but i am not going to rant about this - although i guess i am here a wee bit already!! ptolemy came up with the 5 degrees behind the ascendant as still having great bearing on the angle... one can use this recipe if they like sticking to traditionalist ideology too, lol!

thanks so much for your input!

As for all this (points to the quoted text above), well, you say it yourself in there that the time of birth may be a little later out, and given that, using the 5° rule, Jupiter is just barely still conjunct the ascendant at 3pm, I think that a 12th house perspective regarding Jupiter is worth considering. Of course, it's on the line, riding the edge, and also has Neptune nearby, so a bit of blur is to be expected, no?

It's funny, part of my choosing to unplug from becoming overinvolved in conversations/considerations comes back to this very sort of questioning we end up doing/are doing here. lol. It never ends.

Anyway, here's a quick 2 minute monologue that points toward where I'm at with all of this these days:

the unspeakable world

You might not see me much here, but can always email me directly. :)

thanks jason

i like the conversation in the video from alan watts.... perhaps a parallel that relates to this which i immediately think of is when i am playing music, i can't be thinking about it.. if i am thinking about it, i am on the outside of it and not fully immersed in it.. there is a certain training needed however to get to this place...

i guess for me i find it fun to ruminate on all the possibilities... lets say jupiter is in the 12th.. what would it mean here?? jane gave a description of this, but i am not sure that she factored in saturn on the descendant in all of it, or if she did - i think i would have arrived at a different conclusion... either way, the role of saturn in the descendant or neptune in the ascendant will alter the meaning of jupiter and its proximity to the ascendant.... one has more then just the house position of jupiter to factor into a more complex and complete view of how jupiter works in this chart...

so yeah... we are back to ''thinking'' too much, lol... and for me we are back to the subjectivity of astrology and yet there is something objective about it too - a real conundrum!! perhaps this is the nature of relationship.. there will always be different ways of seeing.... to use the watts commentary - if we think their are only 5 colours or 5 sounds - we remain blind and deaf... i do agree with this and believe i understand the analogy as it applies to astrology too... but i will end by saying i really know next to nothing, lolol!

james_m wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:29 pm

i guess for me i find it fun to ruminate on all the possibilities... lets say jupiter is in the 12th.. what would it mean here?? jane gave a description of this, but i am not sure that she factored in saturn on the descendant in all of it, or if she did - i think i would have arrived at a different conclusion... either way, the role of saturn in the descendant or neptune in the ascendant will alter the meaning of jupiter and its proximity to the ascendant.... one has more then just the house position of jupiter to factor into a more complex and complete view of how jupiter works in this chart...

hi James, at the time I was thinking of Jupiter as being able to ward off jail for its least years but not being strong enough to fully prevent it. Had it not been conjunct the angle it might have been 12 months or less or mitigated in some other fashion. I did not mean to imply I thought Assange was in jail because Jupiter, as ASC ruler, was in the 12th; my thinking was a Jupiter in and ruling the first house would have offered much stronger mitigation.

thanks jane

i am still unsure of your views on this here, so if you are motivated to elaborate - i am interested... i know this looks different depending on the zodiac one is using... sidereal mars is exalted and on an angle in the 3 pm chart.. it rules the ascendant and jupiter both in sidereal scorpio... this in itself would imply something positive.. but it is complicated by the other 2 planets on the angles - neptune and saturn.. i think saturn on the 7th house cusp implies strong enemies and adversaries... perhaps a good way to describe julians legal situation for the longest time was one of being in limbo, legally speaking... this goes with the ambigious nature of neptune on the ascendant here.. if it was just jupiter, it would be different... add to this the strong saturn on the descendant and i think we can see that although jupiter is close to the ascendant - it is unable to wash away or change the impact of this neptune-saturn opposition on the ascendant axis..

the fact he was held in solitary confinement in the uk for a few years - awaiting a court appearance is very medieval and draconian.. i associate that with the usa/uk lovely friendship of aiding and abeting each others nefarious and ill intentions... and i think they are represented by saturn on the descendant - ruled by venus in the 8th house/sign..

jupiter is retrograde.. some might think it is weaker because of its retrograde motion.. that is a standard interpretation although indian astrology views retrograde planets differently.. i remain undecided about how to interpret jupiter in this chart, but i feel it can't be interpreted in isolation to everything else in the chart.. that's all.. in some ways i think it is a very difficult chart given the sect ruler - sun in the 8th, moon in the 12th and etc. etc.. whether jupiter has mitigated some of this - i think it has, but it would be impossible to prove... he has gotten into trouble by revealing 'state' secrets that highlight the illegal actions of this same state - usa... going against the usa here will obviously evoke a good deal of hardship no matter where your jupiter is!! if i was to put down his situation to any one planet it would probably be neptune, but maybe that is because of the association with neptune to the watery houses - 12th and since his sun is in the 8th - i think of neptune being the planet he seems to resonate with the most... but again - i know it is impossible to put everything onto one planet and we are a composite of all these energies at the time of birth and throughout of lives... separating them and what they mean is always a difficult task...

Hi James...I haven't made a close analysis of his chart so this is off the top of my head, looking at the tropical chart for 3pm:

• the 12th has Libra on the cusp with Venus (co-ruler of the 6th by the interception of Taurus) peregrine in Gemini in the 7th (determined to the 1st by opposition) trine the 12th house cusp with Venus separating from a trine of Mars (co-ruler of the 12th by the interception of Scorpio), the contrary to sect malefic in the 4th (determined to the 10th by opposition); so a grand trine connecting the 7th, 4th, and 12th and drawing in the 1st, 6th, and 10th
• Mars is in a mutually applying square with, and disposits, Jupiter in the 12th (determined to the 6th by opposition) with Jupiter ruling the 1st and 5th, in the overcoming position (adding emphasis to the 12th, 6th, 1st and drawing in the 5th)
• Jupiter is also in the opposition of Saturn who is in the 6th (determined to the 12th by opposition) so Jupiter is getting pretty beat up here and being Retro weakens him as does his cadency although his rulership of, and conjunction with, the 1st gives him considerable strength in having a direct effect on the life. The retrograde also implies an eventual 'return', backtracking, or release from prison especially as Mars disposits him in the 4th of home...read this as his country harming him by their non-interest in his plight and then eventually giving him a hand (more emphasis on the 1st, 4th, 6th, and 12th)
• the 12th also holds the Moon in Scorpio (determined to the 6th by opposition), the place of her fall and she is in the Via Combusta; she rules the 9th of publishing and disposits Mercury. The 9th holds the South Node which is conjunct the 10th (added emphasis on the 10th, draws in the 9th)
• the 12th holds Neptune (determined to the 6th by opposition) and also conjunct Jupiter and the 1st - and he gets married (Venus L12 in 7th, Jupiter in 12th) while confined (12th)

So his work activities (6th) connected to military concerns (Mars) draw publicity (9th) to him, harming is reputation (S.Node at MC) with his sexual activities (5th) used to initiate his confinement; the 5th also appears to play a role in that an offer of sanctuary (Jupiter L5, foreign emissary) turns out to be its own form of prison (Jupiter in 12th).

As you can probably tell, I tend to focus more on the houses emphasized for the type of event attracted and then the planets for their analogies by nature and determination versus looking for one planet to produce a particular event.

This might be a little off the wall but I just noticed something while thinking about this chart (it actually woke me up early!): Valens, in Book IV.12 says:

Likewise in any nativity Gemini and Sagittarius have the same general effect as the Place of Slaves because of their zodiacal position when Cancer is in the Ascendant, the Place of Slaves falls in these signs. So even when a native has the Place of Slaves in another sign, but has malefics in these <Gemini or Sagittarius>, he will experience disturbances and injuries from slaves, even penalties, death, and flight, especially if Saturn is in these Places....Consider the same to be true for the rest of the Places which precede centers.

The placement of the signs and their rulers in Assange's chart resonate with the Thema Mundi placements:

• Sagittarius (TM 6th) on 1st with Jupiter in Scorpio (TM 5th) in 12th - work (6th) and pleasure (5th) contribute to the native's (1st) confinement (12th)
• Mars in Aquarius (TM 8th) co-ruling 12th (Scorpio TM 5th) in 4th - human activities (Aquarius, Air) connected to military matters (Mars) lead to confinement (12th) in building (4th) connected to foreign emissary (5th) because of his enemies resources (8th) and violence (Mars) in sexual relations (5th)
• Libra (TM 4th) on 12th with Venus in Gemini (TM 12th) in 7th - his confinement leads to a marriage (Venus, Jupiter, 7th)
• Moon in 12th with Cancer (TM 1st) on 9th - reinforces the above with the additional emphasis on foreign (9th) involvement

It's almost as if the Thema Mundi houses establish initiating conditions for events in his life primarily because the placements in the radix reinforce/resonate with the thema mundi house placement of his signs and their rulers. Makes me wonder if such connections might provide a clue to which charts will manifest events on the world stage. One more thing to think about when examining charts...lol