amelia wrote: Nixx

I?m a bit puzzled here as the other thread seemed to be a back and forth for some between does, (on this chart), Uranus or Saturn or both talk about the way the home is decorated. But you didn't ask about the person?s interior design.

By all means add this if you want. And indeed anything else that you might like to - I just wanted to give some pointers and direction initially as it is a bit overwhelming when just faced with a chart and no specific questions.

An old friend of mine has this Uranus in 10th ruling the 4th Aquarius on the Cusp dynamic. He painted his house a 'loud' colour and it sure does stand out in a row of red brick terraced houses in a large UK city. Yet the inside of the house even though he has lived there a decade or more remains relatively untouched and unremarkable, other than it being a typically offensive and soulless 60's inner city Uk living space. He is well aware it's pretty ugly but can't find the motivation to change it.

I asked him why he had done this and he did not say it was to reform or progress the street but simply he liked the colour. (Hmmm).

However his 4th house is empty, whereas on this MC chart it isn't, even has the Sun there, so it could be the inside is as ?Uranian? as the outside

Ps I was joking about the swinger thing, although who knows! It is a bit of a clich? that when these two inner planets are in Aquarius the ?free love? ( opposite to, yet connected with, the Leo ?Casanova? syndrome ) is experienced with groups rather than individuals, You can speculate if you have one in each sign then a m?nage a trois might be the fantasy de jour.

When I wrote my first post regarding Shelly, I only had time to note a few quick impressions, without any explanations. For the sake of this interesting discussion, I would like to add how I find support for my notions in this chart and expand my theory:

Shelly is somebody living pretty much in a world of her own, given that all the personal planets are under the horizon (and other factors which I will go into later). Having so many planets in Aquarius certainly makes her very unconventional and imaginative. Neptune in XII square Mercury and the Sun would give additional impetus to her imagination, sometimes making it difficult to tell reality from fantasy.

Nevertheless, Uranus - the dispositor of the stellium in Aquarius - is in the tenth house, just like Pluto, the dispositor of her Scorpio ASC, so her occupation would be really important to her. Also, the Ascending Node in the tenth house would require Shelly to come out of her shell (pun unintended).

Ungrounded as she may often be (by the way, a common reason for somebody to unconsciously put extra-weight on), it's quite possible that she finds deep satisfaction in working with groups of people in difficult situations in order to express her deeply philanthropic nature and social interests to the fullest. These tendencies are accentuated by Jupiter conjunct the Aquarius Sun and pursued with intensity also because the Sun is in sextile to the Moon in Aries.

But working with adults could indeed be difficult for Shelly because she is so unusual and imaginative. Children would be a real possibility, in accordance not only with the fourth house placements but also with the Moon in the 5th house in sextile to the Aquarius planets. This house is seen by me as an analogue to Leo, and all her Aquarius planets receive a ?touch? of Leo by Uranus being in that sign. The Ascending Node is in Leo too, a sign often very fond of children.

Orphans come to mind here especially in light of the Uranian nature of the stellium in the fourth house and the oppositions it receives from Uranus (this planet sometimes brings with him outcasts of one kind or another).

An Aquarian character is not always into IT; in Shelly's case Uranus could perhaps signify that she really enjoys to watch TV at home or with her proteges (Neptune's square aspect would suit this). That is, when she isn't involved in some inventive, playful and/or socially valuable activity with the latter! Despite her very loving nature, supposedly she can be a little impatient and angry with her fosterlings as well under certain circumstances (Moon in Aries, Scorpio ASC).

As far as relationships are concerned, Venus receiving an opposition from Uranus (which additionally is square to her DSC) would make it difficult for her to get the reliable and lasting partnership that she basically longs for (ASC/DSC in Scorpio/Taurus, Venus in the fourth house). I wouldn't be surprised if she suffered one or more divorces. But considering her age and loving nature (Venus conjunct Sun), I have hope that meanwhile she has found a reliable partner sympathetic to her unusual ways and offering her some of the stability she is in need of.

Michael

i too like michael s's thought on working with orphan kids or something to that effect.. one could get at that a few ways too ( neptune at the venus/uranus midpoint or on the top of the tsquare and rising, jupiter ruling the 5th whole sign and so close to the sun and etc)..

one thought i want to come back to here is that conjunction of mars/saturn on the i.c. and what it might mean. i do think it is vitally important and had a thought that goes with my idea of the sex change, or some issue connected to that.. mars is in sect, while saturn is out of sect. mars is about sexuality, maybe more so when factored with venus, but then the midpoint to these 2 is also the neptune/mercury square.. i continue to think the importance of mars is vital to this chart and while it is the chart of a women, the mars energy seems especially strong and focused. i am thinking it could work out this way with a crazy thing like sex change which impacts all her relationships accordingly - all that uranus north node in the solar 7th opposite all those aquarius planets makes sense if i am correct on that.

if Shelly were born in a western industrialized country (and someone could calculate her birth location off the chart) there hasn't been a population of "orphan kids" of any size for some time. Do you see her as a foster-parent? Usually foster children have at least one parent, but they are unable to care for their children.

James, I note that the moon in Aries is in the 5th-- but close to the cusp of the 6th. The 5th is not only children, but also recreation. With the moon's sextile to Mercury, I wondered about walking/hiking/running as a hobby. Mars rules sports as well as sexuality; and Mars-Saturn could involve a lot of self-discipline and endurance.

Come to think of it, Saturn-Mars suggests that Shelly might not be your stereotyped Venus in Aquarius. In either sex, Mars indicates whom or what you pursue. The notion of Venus in Aquarius going for sexual experimentation sort of bespeaks of a Uranian Venus, but I think Saturn is the stronger of the two rulers of Aquarius. Yes, I get that Uranus is in the 10th, but opposite the sun, it may not feel like unusual novelty is good.

i mentioned in my previous post neptune at a few midpoints, but it is not at the venus/uranus midpoint.. that is ve/ur=ascendant which makes this combo important in connecting directly with an angle.. midpoints are like blending colours - you get a 3rd or 4th colour unique to the blend.. going back to neptune and midpoints, it is also at the saturn/venus midpoint, as the mars/venus and saturn/venus midpoints are both at approx 13 fixed.. does someone sitting uncomfortably with sexuality ring a bell with saturn/venus pointing to neptune? i kinda think it does.. thus neptune becomes an important planet when combining mars or saturn with venus.. i still think the sexuality issue is the number one thing here.. whether one gets it from mars being the closest planet to an angle, mars as ruler of the ascendant and the pictures i paint or not - well - that is how i am seeing it astrologically!

true story.. i am playing music at present with a guy - bass player - who has neptune opposite the sun. from my pov he has some real identity problems that show up a few different ways.. it expresses itself in issues around sexuality, but then he also has a saturn/venus opposition too in different signs.. he can't make up his mind whether he is a guy or a girl on some basic level. i don't really care, but this is how i see him and the astrology around it too.. fwiw - this mystery chart also has sun square neptune, so a similar energy in some respects..

waybread, as for the orphanage idea - i am not attached to this idea.. working with kids makes some sense, but orphanages less so.. i think neptune can express as self sacrificing type energy if strong in a chart.. some people would blow off neptune rising and say it is in the 12th, but it is in the same sign as the ascendant.. it is a part of the persons self image on some level.. 13 degree orb.. oh well... neptune fits with the idea of androgyny too as i see it..as for moon in aries in the 5th or 6th.. what about the idea of the 5th being a house associated with recreation and sex being thought of in this context in our society today? what about a focus on sex from the 5th?

I took Moon to be 6th and note it rules the ninth house. Not all people are religious nowadays so could be related to ideaology. My first was thought was animals but could be health so maybe a campaigner on animal rights or the Health Service.

The asc ruler in Aquarius can also indicate water like baths and drains in the land and work in Brewing or dying.

The Moons almuten is Sun in det but Mercury has Saturn dignified. More reason than emotion. There is no reason why she should not have a partner (note non-gender specific noun) but I feel mars and saturn indicate work rather than love as her life emphasis.

Mars Lord asc with Saturn I see her appearance as serious with short hair and jeans. More feminist than feminine. I am not sure about my earlier idea about depression. She probably finds work takes her mind off sadness.

Mars alone aspect a waxing moon would indicate anger but Saturn I feel actually assists and tempers Mars.

Matthew

mathew - i thought of the moon as being in either the 5th or the 6th... for a fun exercise in understanding planet relationships, one can treat any planet as the starting point and see where the moon lands in relation to it. it is in the 6th house to the ascendant, but the ascendant is late and the degree of the moon is much earlier.

alternatively the moon is in neptunes 6th house, while also being in plutos 8th house. it is also at the top of what is called a yod pattern involving the same planets.. some astrologers say the yod aspect puts more emphasis on health issues - 150 being an aspect, or not an aspect involving planets or non planets, that do or don't see each other! that sounds 6th house to me, LOL. i am just blabbing on cause i like talking astrology! i think there are so many ways to look at astrology, a person could get confused quickly!@

Hi James,

Yes I did think of the Moon in 6th and not the 5th as it was so close to the cusp but of course intermediate cusps can vary slightly depending on the house system. I am not pedantic on this though and would even allow a planet in the last degree of a sign straddle over the edge to the next. Something others strongly disagree with. I noticed one similar conclusion we came to about the Moon ruler of the ninth in the sixth but through different methodolgy but we can only await the revelation of the truth. Did you say something about the sect of Mars and Saturn?

Matthew

hi matthew - yes i did mention about the sect of mars and saturn. saturn is a more powerful planet then mars in general, but in this case - saturn is out of sect, while mars is in sect. mars rules the ascendant while saturn rules the 3rd and 4th depending on one's concept of rulership. saturn is strong by sign and being in an angle, but out of sect. thus mars seems more capable of acting and expressing itself here. mars also rules the moon and works with the moon as part of the nocturnal sect. for me the big thing about sect here is the fact that most of the planets are below the horizon suggesting a more subjective and personal orientation to life which is how i think of the moon generally. i guess this is another way of looking at sect and the importance of sect.

If we want to go way back here, I recall seeing an idea (somewhere) that a 'malefic' in a cadent house is not 'working' for or with the persons main or primary agenda or teleology. Folks more familiar with this lens may be able to comment as to where the more fundamental or pivotal purpose might be found on a horoscope (I don't want to impose the Solar raison d'etre by way of the Asc schema into this) in relation to this thinking from when or who.

So here these 3rd house 'bad boys' are possibly buggering up the female monkeys self-actualisation (potential soul seeking to actualise itself in matter - Aristotle, via R Hand).

As I mentioned, I want to post another chart.

As some of you have spotted, there is potential for disruptive influences at the root of the chart. As it happens this is quite literally the effect. She moved continents (more than once as it happens)

The chart below is the relocated chart. Shelly, was born on another continent, but has lived in the UK since the late 80s ( I don't have the exact date).

Some of you therefore might consider this chart almost as important as the natal chart. Although she has not changed the fundamentals of her occupation as a result of the change.

So please feel free to update your comments if you wish. Of course if you set no store by relocations you can stick with what you've said already!

The fourth house of home has moved to ninth house of foreign travel so almost literal. The sun is now in his house of joy but autocorrect on iPhone suggested grave for travel! So still a bit Saturnian in mood
Matthew