astrocorreia

Thanks Mark

I was referring to Wullf not Kraft,but Kraft would do,as well as Velhow.They were part of the Hamburg school right?

Ok. As far as i know none of them were identified with the Hamburg school explicitly. Krafft sounds the closest in spirit due to his desire for more rigorous scientific methodology but In am not sure he was actually ever associated with the Hamburg School.

I dont know enough about their specific techniques to know if they applied midpoints. The figures particularly associated with the Hamburg school in Germany were Alfred Witte and Ludwig Rudolph. Witte was another astrologer who became a victim of the Nazis. He committed suicide in 1941 after years of Gestapo surveillance on his activities and repression of his works.

The Hamburg school all used Witte's hypothetical trans-Neptunian bodies. midpoints, and the hard aspects. It was renamed 'Uranian Astrology'in the USA. Reinhold Ebertin later popularised Witte's ideas on midpoints and aspects to the English speaking world in his famous book The Combination of Stellar Influences. However, Ebertin dispensed with trans-Neptunians. He renamed his slimmed down Hamburg School approach ''Cosmobiology.''

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_Sc ... _Astrology

Vehlow, Krafft, and Wulff all seem quite individualistic in approach I think.

Wulff seems to have made use of Indian divisional charts such as the 12 fold division of each sign (Dwadashamsas) and the nine fold division of the chart (Navamsa).

Johannes Vehlow disagreed passionately with quadrant house systems and proposed a kind of equal house system with the cusp in the middle not the beginning of the house. He claimed this was the original house system and based this on what he assumed was Egyptian solar mysticism and the traditional 15 degree orb of the Sun either side of the ASC degree symbolising the rising Sun. Vehlow's monumental eight volume work Lehrkurs der wissenschaftlichen Geburts-Astrologie can be found free online:

http://www.astrologie-chirologie.com/astrologie_2.html

http://oaks.nvg.org/eg4ra3.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navamsa_(astrology)

We had a discussion on Wulff's methods in a previous Skyscript thread:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... sc&start=0

Mark wrote:astrocorreia

Thanks Mark

I was referring to Wullf not Kraft,but Kraft would do,as well as Velhow.They were part of the Hamburg school right?

Ok. As far as i know none of them were identified with the Hamburg school explicitly. But I dont know enough about their specific techniques to know if they applied midpoints. The figures particularly associated with the Hamburg school in Germany were Alfred Witte and Ludwig Rudolph. Witte was another astrological victim of the Nazis.

The Hamburg school all used Witte's hypothetical trans-Neptunian bodies. midpoints, and the hard aspects. It was renamed 'Uranian Astrology'in the USA. Reinhold_Ebertin later popularised Witte's ideas on midpoints and aspects to the English speaking world but dispensed with trans-Neptunians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_Sc ... _Astrology

Vehlow, Krafft, and Wulff all seem quite individualistic in approach I think.

Wulff seems to have made use of Indian divisional charts such as the 12 fold division of each sign (Dwadashamsas) and the nine fold division of the chart (Navamsa).

Johannes Vehlow disagreed passionately with quadrant house systems and proposed a kind of equal house system with the cusp in the middle not the beginning of the house. He claimed this was the original house system and based this on what he assumed was Egyptian solar mysticism and the traditional 15 degree orb of the Sun either side of the ASC degree symbolising the rising Sun. Vehlow's monumental eight volume work Lehrkurs der wissenschaftlichen Geburts-Astrologie can found free online:

http://www.astrologie-chirologie.com/astrologie_2.html

http://oaks.nvg.org/eg4ra3.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navamsa_(astrology)

We had a discussion on Wulff's methods in a previous Skyscript thread:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... sc&start=0

That`s even better,cause I haven`t much trust in the Hamburg school and its fancy theories.Kraft and Wullf seemed to know their job.
Thanks for the interesting link. When I read Kraft`s book I`ll post any interesting stuff I find. I think the book isn`t available in english

astrocorreia, hopefully you find some useful information about the mechanics of kraffts prediction in your readings. i look forward to hearing about what you find...


maybe adb messed up and they ought to have said hamburg school, but it says cosmobiology, not hamburg school... regardless, the use of midpoints is standard in both ideologies.. cosmobiology dispensed with the hypothetical planets but worked with midpoints, an essential part to it. working with a 90 and 45 degree wheel was another essential part of it as i understand it. i am not a historian, but reinhold ebertin aside from writing cosi, wrote many other books elaborating on the use of midpoints with the 90 degree wheel/dial..

here are two wikipedia links to reinhold ebertin - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhold_Ebertin

and cosmobiology - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmobiology

james_m wrote: " He was the author of a number of books in French and German. Krafft was one of the originators of Cosmobiology."

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Krafft,_Karl_Ernst

I think the ADB entry has got things confused.

From the Van Berkel article again:

In the twenties, Krafft tried to demonstrate by means of statistic research that within families certain astrological patterns were present at birth and at death. Further, he did research upon the horoscopes of musicians in order to demonstrate that certain astrological patterns constantly were present. In 1923, research results were published in the brochure Influences cosmiques su l'individu humain; in 1939, he published his research results in the book Trait? d'Astro-Biologie. In the course of the years, Krafft acquired a certain reputation as an astrologer, able to predict. In the beginning of the thirties, he developed a number of theories with the collective noun Typokosmie, on which he gave lectures in countless cities in Switzerland and Germany.

Ebertin didn't publish COSI until 1940. Krafft was certainly motivated by a scientific, research orientated approach like the Hamburg School. However, his area of interest seems to have been around character or typology , family and professions. I think the ADB linkage to Cosmobiology might be an error and stems from the simple confusion that Krafft used the similar sounding term Astrobiology in his epic book. Although, its possible Ebertin may have picked up some ideas from Krafft. He certainly acknowledged his heavy influence from Alfred Witte.

Hopefully we will find out more on Krafft from astrocorreia once they have ploughed through his book. And do please keep us updated on whether Krafft did use midpoints or not.

Thanks

Mark

perhaps adb has it wrong.. regardless, i think it is safe to say astrologers are not like sheep.. not all of them have to adopt hypothetical planets and midpoints at the same time, or wait for the release of a book to be introduced to a technique they might find useful, especially if they have an ongoing interest in astrology.. the parallels with astrology today are interesting.. do i sign up and become a hellenistic astrologer and make sure i got all of it figured out and follow it all according to how it is supposed to be done, or do i improvise? some will take one approach and some the other, with lots doing a bit of both..

in the meantime, i hope we find out more on the basis for his prediction..

James wrote:

perhaps adb has it wrong.. regardless, i think it is safe to say astrologers are not like sheep.. not all of them have to adopt hypothetical planets and midpoints at the same time, or wait for the release of a book to be introduced to a technique they might find useful, especially if they have an ongoing interest in astrology.. the parallels with astrology today are interesting.. do i sign up and become a hellenistic astrologer and make sure i got all of it figured out and follow it all according to how it is supposed to be done, or do i improvise? some will take one approach and some the other, with lots doing a bit of both..

I was just showing a direct link to Ebertin in developing Cosmobiology looked unlikely. Krafft had adopted his own quite individual approach as early as the 1920s when he was still living in Switzerland. But I am sure he would have encountered many astrologers following the Hamburg School in Germany. Whether he applied any of their methods remains an open question.

German astrology in this period was quite diverse and there were many ideas around.

Mark

Mark wrote:James wrote:

perhaps adb has it wrong.. regardless, i think it is safe to say astrologers are not like sheep.. not all of them have to adopt hypothetical planets and midpoints at the same time, or wait for the release of a book to be introduced to a technique they might find useful, especially if they have an ongoing interest in astrology.. the parallels with astrology today are interesting.. do i sign up and become a hellenistic astrologer and make sure i got all of it figured out and follow it all according to how it is supposed to be done, or do i improvise? some will take one approach and some the other, with lots doing a bit of both..

I was just showing a direct link to Ebertin in developing Cosmobiology looked unlikely. Krafft had adopted his own quite individual approach as early as the 1920s when he was still living in Switzerland. But I am sure he would have encountered many astrologers following the Hamburg School in Germany. Whether he applied any of their methods remains an open question.

German astrology in this period was quite diverse and there were many ideas around.

Mark

Funny thoug,that Wullf claims German astrology was decades behind

mark and others,

page 11 reinhold ebertins book (- Combination of Stellar Influences - cosi) under the heading 'What is Cosmobiology'?

..The word cosmobiology was coined by the Austrian physician Dr. Feerhow and was later used by the Swiss statistician K.E. Krafft to designate the branch of astrology working on scientific foundations and keyed to the natural sciences....

mark and others,

page 11 reinhold ebertins book (- Combination of Stellar Influences - cosi) under the heading 'What is Cosmobiology'?

..The word cosmobiology was coined by the Austrian physician Dr. Feerhow and was later used by the Swiss statistician K.E. Krafft to designate the branch of astrology working on scientific foundations and keyed to the natural sciences....

Hello James,

Nice bit of digging on that. Strange though as the term I have seen Krafft describe his astrology with was Astrobiology. But as I pointed out above it very similar sounding and maybe it can be translated either way.

It sounds like the term was originally used for a more empirical, research orientated approach to astrology in pre-war Germany. The quote I gave you from van Berkel certainly demonstrated that about Krafft. But I am still not entirely convinced we can assume from that that Krafft?s Astrobiology or Cosmbiology was synonymous in technique with what Ebertin later used the term for. His attitude may have been similar ie finding a scientific basis for astrology but his techniques may have been quite different.

I retain an open mind either way. But I think this will only be resolved when someone who reads French and/or German reports back here.

I know you would take particular satisfaction if it turns out Krafft was using midpoints!

Mark

Amongst other things,Velhow draws your attention to the fact that just like the AC cusp is the middle of the house, the sunlight begins to show 1-2 hours before the actual rise,which may partly explain the ancient use of those houses.
He provides some exemples,like Hindemburg,whose chart has many planets in cardinal houses when one uses the Velhow system,namely a very strong conjunction in Libra in the 10th.

Or Mary Peary,born at 77 Lat north from the explorer Peary

Also this pair of twins
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Twins,_Clough

and two German twins who amongst other things died by drowning
http://www.astrologie-chirologie.com/jo ... icksal.pdf

Hopefully Wolfgang,or any other native speaker will help

Hello astrocorreia

I too am interested in Vehlow's work and ideas. I discussed his house system over on the Indian forum a couple of years ago. I also found his works online which I think you have just started reading now too.

While he is a major figure in early 20th century German astrology like Krafft I do think it would make more sense to have a discussion on his astrological ideas on a separate thread and keep this one devoted to Krafft's prediction.

Mark

Mark wrote:Hello astrocorreia

I too am interested in Vehlow's work and ideas. I discussed his house system over on the Indian forum a couple of years ago I also found his works online which I think you have just started reading now too.

While he is German like Krafft I do think it would make more sense to have a discussion on his astrological ideas on a separate thread and keep this one devoted to Krafft's prediction.

Mark

Good idea.Even better than whole sign houses the Vehlow system explains the Gauguelin effect after the angles.
Once again,thanks for thelink