Skyscript Astrology Forum

Georgius,

To bring some water to your mill, Uranian astrology would look at longevity along the midpoints of Saturn and Kronos which refers to 'long time'.
And no dignities or debilities considered.
Following the logic of Martin, this would place the SU in Capricorn in square to SA Exalted in Libra near the MC. With the SU ruling the 8th.

Just a quick glance here!

A bit low on time now, and didn't get to read what everybody else have scribbled down, so just my two cents here:

The fact that the weak Sun rules the 8th of death may show that what's weak isn't the person but "death" is.
Interesting that according to whole sign, the Sun (lord of death) is in Aversion to the ASC.
For longevity and vitality we can check the L-1 (lord of the first) Saturn which is elevated, like James said. Also it's in aspect to both benefics.
The dispositor of Saturn is also quite Strong, that MArs in Aries.
Both benefics are cnj the ASC, which is another point of life (one of the candidates for being hyleg).
The Moon here (body accord. to Hellenistic) is very strong, near its degree of exaltation in the beginning of Taurus.
Capricorn ASC is also interesting, as if the chart shows that old age can be a major chapter.

@Martin & Ouranos:
Yes, I have to admit that the sideral zodiac fits much better than the tropical for this chart.

@Dima Gur:
The points you mention as signs of long life are plausible but I would not have seen this in advance (in addition usually I do not consider the sideral zodiac).
Considering the Sun as L8 (and a weak L8) rises the question if the accidental significance or the ”natural“ significance of a planet should be preferred.

Considering the Sun as L8 (and a weak L8) rises the question if the accidental significance or the ”natural“ significance of a planet should be preferred.

You are starting to think like an astrologer!
Sorry Georgius, but if you start to think after the fact and stretch astrology to prove a point, there is a thousand way that you will always be right.
I was recently reading a quote from a well known astrologer that went like this
'You possess a remarkable degree of inner power, although outwardly you may at times experience yourself as powerless...."
This is the formula for success in astrology, saying one thing and the reverse in the same sentence or playing with inner/outer, good/bad and so on.
In your example chart, you have the Ruler of the 8th peregrine in the ASC and out of sect in square to Saturn (sidereal) and the Moon is not helping much applying by opposition to Saturn. Both luminaries tied to Saturn by hard aspects and we are talking about a 99 year-old woman. No matter how you turn the chart, obviously there is something else in play here that we have not put our finger on.
Could it be, again sidereal that Jupiter in rulership in Sag near the ASC sextile Saturn exalted near the MC has a final say on the length of her life?
Every chart is unique like every human being and astrology cookbooks are only helpful to isolate a piece of the puzzle.

Ouranos wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 8:40 pm…if you start to think after the fact and stretch astrology to prove a point, there is a thousand way that you will always be right.

Yes, that’s a problem. But how to learn in another way? Even if one does a prediction and it is right, this is no proof that his or her delineation was correct. Maybe there was another point not seen and it was right at random. And if it was wrong one is in the same condition like thinking after the event only that the wrong analysis can be excluded already. So what to do?

The given chart was ment as an example. My question or my doubt is about an essential and accidental weak Sun. What can it show? A weak will? Tendency to sickness? A short life? An arrogant and boustful person? A weak death (in this chart being ruler of 8th)? Little resources of the partner?

Ouranos wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 8:40 pmCould it be, again sidereal that Jupiter in rulership in Sag near the ASC sextile Saturn exalted near the MC has a final say on the length of her life?

Maybe. Sideral seen Jupiter has very good essential dignities, Venus becomes essential weaker but she is only the lesser benefactress anyway. Streching the 5° rule a little bit one can say there a both benefactors in the first house of health.
(By then way I did a birth time rectification and the time of birth should be very correct. The shown chart is based on the data of the civil registry office.)

Georgius wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 12:39 pm Generally I follow the idea that an essential weak planet is showing its bad sides and an accidental weak planet has difficulties to act. But how to deal with this when the natal sun is concerned? I cannot believe that every person with Sun in Aquarius without good aspects is cursed with arrogance! I know a lady with her Sun in the 1st house and conjunct the South Node. Sure she has no weak life force: She is 99 years old!

So how to deal with dignities and debilities of the Sun in the natal chart?

The question is: what is weak?
This reminds me of an encounter in the city in the elevator when a young man with a crutch got in and reported about a sports accident when I said: You should have smoked better.

Jakob wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 7:13 pm The question is: what is weak?

I think “weak” means little power to act.
The man with the crutch had enough power to hurt himself: bad essential dignity, medium to strong accidential dignity.

Georgius wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 7:12 am

Jakob wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 7:13 pm The question is: what is weak?

I think “weak” means little power to act.
The man with the crutch had enough power to hurt himself: bad essential dignity, medium to strong accidential dignity.

Hello Goergius, I meant the example with the young sportsman like this: Our ideas about what is healthy are very ideologically influenced. I was once a human resources administrator for 250 employees and dared to make statistics on sick leave: The result was that non-smokers report sick 30% more than smokers. I'm also sure that the result would be similar if you chose 2 million subjects. Jakob

What is weak?
???

Jakob wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 7:25 amOur ideas about what is healthy are very ideologically influenced.

I aggree.

Jakob wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 7:25 amWhat is weak?
???

That’ another matter. Weak is not sick, strong is not healthy per se. Our conviction judge something or somebody as good or bad or in between and to some extent it also influences classification as weak or strong. Weak is not bad all the time and strong is not good all the time. In (traditional) astrology it’s the same. In election astrology a weak malefic is preferred over a strong one and an essentially good malefic is preferred over a bad one. And an essentially bad benefactor is preferred over a good culprit.