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One thing we know about Ptolemy is that he didn't 'invent' anything. He simply reported and explained the principles used by his sources.

One thing we know about Ptolemy is that he didn't 'invent' anything. He simply reported and explained the principles used by his sources.

Ptolemy introduced many basic changes in the astrological paradigm. I will mention only one - the transition from a sidereal frame of reference to a tropical one.
Source: Alexander Jones, Ancient Rejection and Adoption of Ptolemy’s Frame of Reference for Longitudes in Ptolemy in Perspective, Springer, 2010, pp.11-44

astroart wrote:

One thing we know about Ptolemy is that he didn't 'invent' anything. He simply reported and explained the principles used by his sources.

Ptolemy introduced many basic changes in the astrological paradigm. I will mention only one - the transition from a sidereal frame of reference to a tropical one.
Source: Alexander Jones, Ancient Rejection and Adoption of Ptolemy’s Frame of Reference for Longitudes in Ptolemy in Perspective, Springer, 2010, pp.11-44

Dear Mr. Astroart from Bulgaria,

would You be so kind to give a 2nd source for Your interesting thesis - preferably a respected source in the academic field of research about the history of astrology. - If I understand Your posting correctly you mean one specific "Rejection and Adoption of Ptolemy’s Frame of Reference for Longitudes" - well - how does that equate "Ptolemy introduced many basic changes in the astrological paradigm." - And could someone from the community help me out - is that "basic"?

So why don't you name a 2nd piece of basic change in the astrological paradigm for starters including the academic references.

Can someone help me out - isn't that transition already happening BCE?

would You be so kind to give a 2nd source for Your interesting thesis - preferably a respected source in the academic field of research about the history of astrology

Source: David Brown,The Interactions of Ancient Astral Science, Hempen Verlag, Bremen, 2018, p.759

Rafael Gil Brand: On the Origin of the Tropical Zodiac, in: Journal of Anomalistics, Vol. 2 (2002), S. 264-270 - The tropical division of the zodiac goes back to Euktemon. He defined already in the 5th century B.C. the equinoxes and solstices as beginnings of the signs Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn. Euktemon does not seem to have been concerned with astrology, but he equated the Chaldean zodiacal signs with the months of his solar calendar oriented to the equinoxes. This definition of the zodiac was adopted by Greek astronomers such as Kallipos and Hipparchos. This tropical division of Greek astronomers may have been adopted from the Babylonians, insofar as they used a system that indicated the rising times of twelve sections of the ecliptic

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) = Rafael Gil Brand: Die tropische Einteilung des Tierkreises geht auf Euktemon zurück. Er definierte schon im 5.Jahrhundert v.Chr. die Äquinoktien und Solstitien als Anfänge der Zeichen Widder, Krebs, Waage und Steinbock. Euktemon scheint sich nicht mit Astrologie beschäftigt zu haben, hat aber die chaldäischen Tierkreiszeichen mit den Monaten seines an den Äquinoktien orientierten Sonnenkalenders gleichgesetzt. Diese Definition des Tierkreises wurde von griechischen Astronomen wie Kallipos und Hipparchos übernommen. Diese tropische Einteilung griechischer Astronomen ist möglicherweise von den Babyloniern übernommen worden, insofern diese ein System benutzten, das die Aufstiegszeiten von zwölf Abschnitten der Ekliptik anzeigte.[3]

Hipparchus - In Arati et Eudoxi Phaenomena commentariorum libri tres. Leipzig: B. G. Teubner, 1894 -

From this, then, it is clear that he places the turning points in the beginnings, one in the beginning of Cancer, the other in the beginning of Capricorn (Hipparchus 1894: 131 f.):

I take here the points of the turns and the equinoxes as the beginnings of the signs set (Hipparchus 1894: 49).

Also by the old mathematicians, if not by all, at least by most, the ecliptic was divided in this way (Hipparchos 1894: 133).

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Hipparchus - In Arati et Eudoxi Phaenomena commentariorum libri tres. Leipzig: B. G. Teubner, 1894

Hieraus geht also hervor, dass er die Wendepunkte in die Anfänge setzt, den einen in den Anfang des Krebses, den anderen in den Anfang des Steinbocks (Hipparch 1894: 131 f.):

Ich nehme hierbei die Punkte der Wenden und der Tag- und Nachtgleichen als die Anfänge der Zeichen gesetzt (Hipparchos 1894: 49).

Auch von den alten Mathematikern, wenn nicht von allen, so doch von den meisten, war die Ekliptik auf diese Weise geteilt (Hipparchos 1894: 133).

Quote: Alexander Jones - Ancient Rejection and Adoption of Ptolemy’s Frame, S.29:

“On the other hand, there is nothing in the papyri to suggest that their authors or users thought of the frame of reference primarily as sidereal.???

Prof. Dr. Nick Campion writes in his:

A History of Western Astrology - Volume I - Page 81 this:

https://talk.vonabisw.de/Campion/Campion81.jpeg

would You be so kind to give a 2nd source for Your interesting thesis - preferably a respected source in the academic field of research about the history of astrology.

Look carefully at the analysis of the positions of the luminaries and the planets in the horoscope of Emperor Hadrian made by prof. Stephan Heilen in his book “Hadriani genitura – Die astrologischen Fragmente des Antigonos von Nikaia" (2015) and pay special attention to the positions of the Moon and Jupiter in the table on p.594. Prof. Heilen's style is a bit difficult but on the other hand the book is in German.

The Thesis was:"Ptolemy introduced many basic changes in the astrological paradigm. I will mention only one - the transition from a sidereal frame of reference to a tropical one."

Which was falsified above.

On page 594

https://talk.vonabisw.de/Brennan/Heilen594.pdf

there is not a single word that could be associated with the thesis.

Considering the fact, that the thesis "Ptolemy introduced many basic changes in the astrological paradigm. I will mention only one - the transition from a sidereal frame of reference to a tropical one." has been falsified I will no longer answer further replies in this context.

Is astroart = Mister Rumen Kolev from Varna in Bulgaria and the author of:BABYLONIAN SKY SCIENCE volume 1
http://www.babylonianastrology.com/inde ... t&Itemid=1