To truly understand and see all of the important components of a Solar Return, taken as a whole, requires serious study of ?Interpreting Solar Returns.? Always remember this thread only illustrates separate teaching components of a Solar Return from the teachings of ?Interpreting Solar Returns??with separate posts dissecting the whole teachings. Jim stresses reading the Solar Return twice, once by itself, and again using a bi-wheel noting any possible Solar Planets aspects with Natal planets. Personally, I mainly pay attention to the conjunction and opposition aspects between Solar Planets and Natal Planets. However, I pay very close attention to all the ?dynamic? aspects when reading a Solar Return by itself without comparing the return chart to the natal chart. Many times there are no significant Solar Planet aspects to the Natal Planets, but at times Solar Return partile aspects to the Natal Planets become crucial for the astrologer to see. Jim states on page 6 of ?Interpreting Solar Returns:?

?Solar Returns are transit-based techniques. They arise from a precise aspect (conjunction) of the transiting Sun with the natal Sun. They consist of transiting planets at a given moment in time, near or on one?s birthday, locked into collusion with natal planets for a year to follow.?

Sometimes, this ?locked into collusion with natal planets for a year? will pinpoint the times when certain aspect patterns of the Natal Chart will manifest. Always pay very close attention to any partile aspects with Solar Planets to Natal Planets, particularly the conjunction and opposition. If this occurs close to the angles of the Solar Return, you have isolated very potent aspects that will dominate long time periods within the solar year. Even if these Solar Planet aspects to Natal Planets don?t occur close to the Solar Return angles?they are still important. I will later illustrate this solar return planet ?collusion? effect with natal planets with an example from my personal files.

Steve

Sometimes I wonder if Solar/Lunar Returns are the only important transit based predictive systems aside from regular transits. There have not really been too many predictive astrological break throughs since the Egyptian era.
The second best predictive techniques I've observed are Horary and Age Harmonics, and they've been both very hit and miss, at least in my opinion.

BiBi wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if Solar/Lunar Returns are the only important transit based predictive systems aside from regular transits. There have not really been too many predictive astrological break throughs since the Egyptian era.
The second best predictive techniques I've observed are Horary and Age Harmonics, and they've been both very hit and miss, at least in my opinion.

My study of Cyril Fagan?s work has convinced me Solar Returns originated in ancient Egypt pertaining to what we know of known history; and, the Solar Return is one of the best, if not the best, prognostic systems available to astrologers pertaining to genethlical astrology. In my eyes/mind, the Solar Return is a most sacred astrological instrument. But when it comes to prediction, even Fagan with Solar Returns said predicting the actual cause of an event or incident with planetary symbolism ?deserts astrology for mere speculation.? In other words, predicting with Solar Returns is also a ?hit and miss? endeavor?we can only prognosticate the nature of how the native will psychologically ?feel? with planetary symbolism in a Solar Return?not the entire true predictive mundane cause of the native?s ?feelings.?

Steve

Hi Steve,
what one could expect from the Full Moon position in the middleground of SR chart ?
I have Eshelman?s book but I need a simple explanation (of page 69).

Thank you in advance,
Trojan

horarcek asked:
what one could expect from the Full Moon position in the middleground of SR chart ?
I have Eshelman?s book but I need a simple explanation (of page 69).

Simple explanation: When Full Moons appear in Solar Return Charts, it usually symbolizes ?some kind of concrete limits have been reached? pertaining to a part of the native?s life, which will require ?a reorientation of some sort.? The full moon in a solar return chart symbolizes a shedding of much lunar ?light? on a phase of the individual?s life agenda & circumstances.

A perfect example of a Full Moon in a Solar Return Chart can be found in this thread with Obama?s 2009 Solar Return, which featured a 5.5 degree approaching Full Moon. On Jan 20th 2010, when the secondary Solar Moon progressed to a partile conjunct to his Sun (symbolizing the exact FULL Moon), Scott Brown, a Republican, was elected Senator of MA. This gave the Republican Party filibuster power which put a ?concrete limit? on the Democrat Party because they lost their full majority of 60 Senate Votes. The Democrat Party (Obama) had to ?reorientate? their political plans. Full Moon as well as New Moon symbolism in Solar Returns usually symbolizes some type of crisis-- but a-lot depends on how the Solar Return as a whole is aspected.

It is very important to distinguish between an approaching Full Moon or a separating Full Moon with Solar Return Charts. An approaching Full Moon is very important for detailed analysis because ONLY an approaching Full Moon can mature Partile progressed Solar Moon oppositions to Solar Sun. This also means an approaching Full Moon can set-up PARAN Solar Quotidians, whereas a separating Full Moon cannot set-up secondary progressed partile oppositions to the Sun or Paran oppositions with the Solar Quotidian Charts. Whenever I see an approaching ( within 12 degrees) Full Moon in a Solar Return Chart it deserves my full attention, regardless where it falls on the Solar Wheel??background? or ?middleground.? The same would apply for approaching New Moons.

Regards, Steve

I agree, but as well, even if it's seperating the conjunction for moon/sun can still produce powerful effects, not as powerful as partile, but still powerful indeed. Especially if the mo/su is aspecting another planet even if it's not dynamically. In my case in 1994, it was badly, I went into the hospital for sinus and throat surgery, I was just a young child before puberty, I almost died from toxemia, I spent over a month in the hospital, I actually had to be transferred from one hospital to a more major hospital because they had no idea what was going on with me. After that, It was not over, I had to be homeschooled for a very long time, because I had these terrible rashes, and in the middle of that, my mother had been indecisive about moving 20 miles away to another town to care for my sick grandmother. Even though it was not a huge move astrologically, I did not want to move, nedless to say we ended up moving, and we moved back in 2000.
Notice Pluto right on the ascendant, the moon/sun conjunction in the foreground seperating from Saturn. The mo/su cnj also sxt mars.....and the only thing that probably saved my life was the cnjs sxt to jupiter...terrible chart
This was my first surgery too by the way One last note, Even though I am not an expert, I have noticed that by itself, the mo/su symbolism is benificial, even though it might cause a disruption that in the immediate moment may seem very stressful, when looked back upon, most of the time you tend to be greatful. When mixed with the benifics VE/JU.....alone, it's even better but I noticed that the malefics can over power this planetary pair even when benifics are involved.....in summation, Alone, it seems to be very benifical for moving on, and creating a change, but can be easily influenced even by static aspects. Remember that the same basic symbolism will probably apply for the 3 major dynamic aspects, just at varying strenghts ect.

Excellent example BiBi (your 1994 Solar Return)! Partile New Moons & Full Moons in Solar Return Charts are highly indicative for events/incidents in one?s life that are not forgotten over a lifetime. Jim states on page 68 of ?Interpreting Solar Returns:?

In general, Sun-Moon aspects in a Solar Return represent crisis, i. e.significant turning points?

Your 1994 Solar Return features a partile conjunction of Sun-Moon (new moon) in the immediate foreground (within 7.5 degrees of an angle) backed-upped with Saturn & Pluto in the immediate foreground. Saturn is throwing a 4 degree (?serious influence?) opposition to your Solar lights-- the new moon; and, your 1994 angular Solar Return lights are afflicted by a tight angular greater malefic-Saturn. Angular Solar Pluto is symbolizing its ?dramatic? symbolism and as you pointed our ?a first? time operation.

Also, it is noteworthy to note your Natal partile conjunction of Mars & Uranus at 10 degrees Sag is T-Squaring your 1994 Solar Return New Moon and your 1994 Solar Return Saturn. Mar-Uranus symbolism is a par-excellent aspect for surgical ?operations.? Jim teaches that when important Natal aspects are prominently aspected to Solar Return configurations it will show us ?how? the native will ?react? to the Solar Return symbolism?you ?reacted? with a surgical ?operation.?

A striking and amazing example of a Solar Return featuring a New Moon! Thanks for posting.

Regards, Steve

Thanks Steve,
It's one of my favorite charts too
We should work on a book or some website and try to spread our findings to others.
Anyway, when you you say a natal was a reaction, and surgery was my reaction.....I thought surgery was more of the outside influence, and the way I reacted to everything would be more of the natal..That the the Conjunction just activated my natal MA/UR Conjunction, and made more more attractive to people who would to slice and dice me. Thankfully it only expressed it self through surgery, and not violence.
You really can't react by needing a surgery, unless it's something like cosmetic. This was something that was thrust on me, especially just being a child.
I was also going to ask, what zodiac do you prefer, I prefer the sidereal, just because 1 it's less work, and it seems to be more descriptive, but again, it's seems to be a very weak influence

BiBi asked:
I was also going to ask, what zodiac do you prefer, I prefer the sidereal, just because 1 it's less work, and it seems to be more descriptive, but again, it's seems to be a very weak influence.

I do not use a zodiac (sign or constellation interpretations) in my work with astrology. I do not read natal charts by themselves-- only in conjunction with solar returns, lunar returns, and quotidian charts as Jim teaches in his book. This is not to say Natal readings are not important to an individual. My small following of clients, mainly businessmen, only want to know what they can expect to experience with planetary symbolism from year to year (solar return). When my clients are involved in important business activities (meetings) they are interested mainly in quotidian charts, preceding lunar return, and current progressions. It is my opinion; the younger a client-- more demand for mainly natal readings, the older the client?more demand for what is happening NOW with their planetary symbolism return charts, progressions, solar arcs. I am old and my clientele are old. I do not charge any fees for my astrology work. I let my client determine the value of my work and I am only paid when the client thinks my work has any value and made a difference in a win-lose business situation. This accounts for much of my learned astrology including my books. I am a retired business person?never depended on income from my astrology work. I was told when I was very young, by a high grade psychic?I would be initiated with some very important, out of print astrology books, as well as other books pertaining to ancient Egypt-- which would become very important with my personal astrological research?this has indeed become true on a personal life level. I am late in my life and plenty of leisure time?just trying to ?pass on? to other astrologers my experience and learning of astrology. I strongly feel that some outstanding astrological research was done by obscure individual astrologers in the 20th century and most of this work went unnoticed by many of today?s astrologers. The siderealist as individuals also did some brilliant life-long work in the 20th century?I am trying to draw attention to their individual work.

If I were to choose a zodiac?it would be the sidereal for two reasons?1: don?t have to account for precession with long time measures. 2: my work has convinced me the ancient Egyptian astrologers/astronomers used the sidereal zodiac. I believe as Cyril Fagan, the ancient Egyptian astrologers/astronomer were par-excellent. I only use the tropical zodiac (precession corrected returns) on this forum because I realize 98% of today?s astrologers cut their teeth on the tropical zodiac?don?t want to get into any debates over which zodiac is correct?waste of my energies and a un winnable debate.

Steve

I was not trying to start a debate, just curious
I really believe the zodiac has more to do with some kind of global consciousness

Hi Steve,

what are your experiences with Lunar nodes on SR angles ?

Trojan

horarced asked:

what are your experiences with Lunar nodes on SR angles

I generally agree with Reinhold Ebertin?s genethlical work?the lunar node on the angles of a Solar Return emphasizes ?associations? with people in our immediate environment. Determining which people with the node by itself on an angle requires questioning by the astrologer with the client/native. When there are partile or tight aspects with other planets to the node on the angle-- offers sound symbolism to which people in the immediate environment draws the attention of the native. For example: If you found the lunar node on the 7th house cusp partile squaring Venus?this would be potent symbolism the solar year would manifest an ?outstanding incident? pertaining to the effects of romance/love?pertaining to ?associates? in the immediate environment. If this same node on the 7th house cusp was partile square Mercury with a businessman, then there would be potent symbolism for ?outstanding incidents? pertaining to business ?associates?. It all depends on the individual ?people? priorities with the native. The lunar node by itself on a SR angle, with no featured aspects to natal or solar planets is just symbolizing a solar year with more activity than normal with the close 'associates' in your life.

On Page 64 of Ebertin?s book the ?Combinations of Stellar Influences? he states pertaining to ?The Dragon?s Head?, the lunar node:

?Principle: Association or alliance. Sociological Correspondence: Meetings, alliances, societies, contact-people, blood-ties, kindred and related people.?

Regards, Steve