Oh well, that didm;t start too well - the Racing Post forgot to mention that Highway Dream was once an unused extra in Steptoe and Son

Roc De Prince won at Musselburgh in the 14:00 @ 15/2 - Saturn angular 5th semisextile 1st aspect

Magic Circle was the winner in the 14:10 at Doncaster @ 100/30 - Saturn angular again

Wolves 14:55
Houdini @ 7/1 - 5th quincunx Jupiter, just leaving the 12th house

Firstly, commiserations on today- welcome to my world. (It?s my wife who picks the winners ? don?t mention the budgie in Carry on at your Convenience!!)

astrogooner wrote:

As regards to the sextile to Saturn in the previous races, the form guide in the Racing Post suggested that the slightly longer distances in those races (i think, 1mile2 and 1mile4) where too long and that the 1mile in this race would suit. I'll be honest, i had a sigh of relief when i read that! In the end, Obsidian won his first race and we now what to look for next time - but don't back him at longer than 1 Mile!

I do not want any of the following to be read as critical, but a request to consider and discuss the process of choosing a horse. I accept that astrologers use a wide variety of techniques and this is just asking for some additional clarity.

Are the comments above a case of going with the form/ground conditions/racing press first and then looking at the astrology to reaffirm the non-astrological choice? Have the contributors on here considered in what order do they approach this subject?

If the astrological consideration is towards the end of the process, then it doesn?t seem to matter which planet/sign/aspect system is used. The choice is effectively already made and with a poetic metaphor used at the end of the decision trail then several names could be argued for.

For me, poetic metaphor is phrase which describes well the decision process following the creation of the chart, at the start of the decision process.

If I understand the implied process of choosing a horse, then with the example of Obsidian, there is little reason in progressing a conversation about why it is Saturn or a Capricorn Moon.

Quick comment on a race today
Wolverhampton 13.15 Highway Dream.
With hindsight 5th house cusp aspects Mars on the MC, dispositor Venus (Opal) Winner Opal Tiara.
Saturn and Neptune are also prominent. With Alcabitius the 5th cusp applies to Venus.

These are "certain" (Sepharial's term, and not mine) selections for today:

Limerick 14:00 Kinnitty Castle, Nidge, Well Boy
Beverley 15:55 Dark Ocean
Southwell 18:20 Cold Knight, Popaway
Southwell 19:55 Its A Story, Mister Jones
Killarney 20:15 Daliyan

Certain: another of the potential Siginifiers supports the actual Signifier.

I would suggest that all of these are considered as a Betfair place bet and not as a win.

skyrack wrote:These are "certain" (Sepharial's term, and not mine) selections for today:

Limerick 14:00 Kinnitty Castle, Nidge, Well Boy

If there was nothing in the method we would expect the three suggestions to be randomly scattered in the results, but they are not. Oddly they are three of the last four horses (out of 15). It is almost as if the method is predicting the reverse of the winners. Those three horses are not a random selection. Something is going on.

Let's see what the other results look like.

GB wrote:It is almost as if the method is predicting the reverse of the winners. Those three horses are not a random selection. Something is going on.

There are two ways of arriving at the selections: the Direct way and the Converse way. Your words above almost suggest that the Converse shoul have been used here. The chart does look close to a Converse and I will do the maths later to see how close that may have been. Sepharial is a bit vague on how near is "near" to trigger the Converse, but I have taken it as when the indicated weights are exactly the same (to the nearest pound).

If this race had been taken as Converse, Too Many Notes 2nd at 40/1, would have been a nice start...

Are the comments above a case of going with the form/ground conditions/racing press first and then looking at the astrology to reaffirm the non-astrological choice? Have the contributors on here considered in what order do they approach this subject?

Personally, i look at the chart of the race first and then i look to form, going, the trainers and jockeys etc...There are so many factors to consider in horse racing and the astrology of the race and/or horse is just one of them. Take Frankel, for example. He beat all of the world's very best horses and was undefeated in 14 first class races. There must have been some spectacular astrological testimony for his adversaries, yet not one of them beat him in 14 attempts. Faugheen (who is named after a small catholic chapel in Ireland - thanks for mentioning that, Racing Post!) is another of the same sort a caliber.

If the astrological consideration is towards the end of the process, then it doesn?t seem to matter which planet/sign/aspect system is used. The choice is effectively already made and with a poetic metaphor used at the end of the decision trail then several names could be argued for.

For me, poetic metaphor is phrase which describes well the decision process following the creation of the chart, at the start of the decision process.

I don't believe that is necessarily true in regard to the astrological consideration being made at the end of the process.I think anyone wanting to apply astrology to most subjects would naturally look at the astrology first. But i regularly consider astrological factors after narrowing the field. If you're an astrologer, the astrological process is there to begin with anyway, so whether you apply it at the start or the beginning of your selection process is irrelevant in my opinion. I agree with you that astrology is a language of poetic metaphor, but to apply astrology to a subject, you must first understand the subject itself. Combining discretion with art, if you like. Or having your wits in your head and not in your books, as the saying goes.

If I understand the implied process of choosing a horse, then with the example of Obsidian, there is little reason in progressing a conversation about why it is Saturn or a Capricorn Moon.

I'm not quite sure about the Saturn point you bring up. Obsidian is a naturally occurring volcanic glass formed as an extrusive igneous rock. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian

Obsidian is a glass, and as i understand it, glass is ruled by the Moon and not by Saturn. The fact that the Moon was in Capricorn adds more testimony to the selection, by way of colour and origin. Obsidian could have been signified just as well with the Moon in Aries or Sag, for example. It's the language of poetic metaphor after all and sometimes you just have to be creative with it.

Anyway John, nice post

Oddly they are three of the last four horses (out of 15). It is almost as if the method is predicting the reverse of the winners. Those three horses are not a random selection. Something is going on.

There most certainly is - it's called 'Moon Phase'!

Sed - 6favs from 7 races
Bev - 6 favs from 8
Lim - 5 favs from 7
Win - 6 favs from 7

Includes *joint and 2nd favs

Yesterday's Eclipse selections were less than impressive with just Cold Knight returning 2.95.

Last Year's opening day of the York Dante meeting the Eclipse method saw a healthy profit of 6.13 on 8 place bets.

Today:

• 14:10 Ty Gwr
  14:40 Another Wise Kid, Arctic Feeling, Hoof It
  15:15 Aetna, Gathering Power, Lucky Kristale
  15:45 Together Forever
  16:20 Foreign Diplomat, Swift Emperor
  16:50 Primogeniture

I also have Foreign Diplomat in a treble.

5th quincunx 9th Venus - Lady of turned 5th.

My fancy is for Justice Day (5th trines Sun, in Jupiter's terms) the 15:15, but i haven't backed it.

What a curious collection of results today.

While favourite backers would have been happy with the results at Kempton and Newcastle today, and as it stands - also Bath, Perth and Naas this evening, - as is so often the case with Moon phases of waning trines and sextiles - the real question is, what happened at York? Only two favourites won there today, the almost unbeatable looking Star of Seville and Mahsoob. It's a question to ponder, for sure.

*Massive headslap for Astrogooner. After arguing the toss that the Moon rules glass in the last few posts, Glass Office was the 40/1 winner in the 15:15 at York. The first aspect from the 5th was sextile the 6th Moon herself at 21?Pis01' - anyone who's ever worked in an office would surely agree that an office belongs to the 6th house of slaves and servants.

York is the least "favourite-friendly" flat course.

http://www.ukhorseracingtipster.com/hor ... by-course/

Another poor result for the Eclipse method with only Together Forever returning 1.48 for the place.

Bath was the only meeting where Eclipse did well yesterday:

• 3 points profit on 5 win bets and
  4.23 points profit on 9 place bets.