Steve wrote:... It may take me awhile to get acclimated with Riyal in order to ask certain follow-up questions.

Atlantean wrote:Quick question. How do I get Riyal to show the Radix AND Transit positions (as per your screenshot) when using Parans?

There is at the end of the documentation a Yahoo link to the "Riyal Compute" forum, where we can discuss all the technical issues.

When I first saw your request, I assumed you meant a list of transiting parans for a specific time-range. Riyal can make such lists for zodiacal, right ascension, and declination transits, but not directly for parans. But then I saw that you were asking for a list of parans for a specific date and time, so here you are.

This is not the place but I guess a quickie to obtain the list I posted will be useful:

1) calculate the natal ("F1" or "Menu-->Radix")
2) calculate the event (Menu-->Comparison) -- Now the 2 sets of data are stored (Here you have the choice to calculate "direct" and 2 versions of "converse" transits)
3) calculate the parans ("Tables-->Paranatellontas). Since there are 2 sets of data, you will be asked to choose between the radix and the 2nd chart. Make sure you choose "same" --if you choose "radix" the 2nd chart will be erased.

The listing is given as time ahead or behind (-) the angles. The precession-correction is applied from the time of birth, as one does to calculate solar and lunar returns.

Juan

Thanks, Juan

Worked like a charm.

I would have never found it!

Peace

Atlantean

Juan Riyal?s screen image he supplied in this thread confirms Eden?s list of transiting parans in Hand?s article. Hand only used transiting parans to Eden?s Natal planets that were partile (one degree or under). The following is an explanation for identifying Eden?s partile transiting parans to her natal planets in Riyal?s screen image columns, perfectly matching the same partile transiting parans with Hand?s list for Eden.

*Note:
When looking at Riyal?s screen image list of partile transiting parans to Eden?s Natal Planets, you identify the partile transiting parans by noting minutes in Juan?s list. Whenever you see a transiting planet that is 4-5 minutes within a natal planet?this will identify a partile transiting paran. Juan?s computer program Riyal identifies the natal planet with (r). The angles are identified with the letters- m (mc-culminating). a (ascendant-rising), d (descendant-setting), and i ( ic-anti-culminating)?the same letters Hand uses with Eden?s transiting parans to identify the angles.


1: From Hand?s list: Mars (I) Pluto (A)
From Riyal?s Screen Image 1st. column: 0h05.1 Mar i, 0H10.4 Plu ar

2: From Hand?s list: Mars D, Uranus A
From Riyal?s Screen Image, near bottom of 2nd column: 11h54.9 Mar m 11h58.8 Ura ir

3: From Hand?s list: Moon D Saturn A
From Riyal?s Screen Image, 2nd column: 9h56.2 Mo d 10h00.6 Sat. ar

4: From Hand?s list: Moon A Mars A
From Riyal?s Screen Image, 4th column: 3h58.8 Mo d 3h59.2 Ma ar

5: From Hand?s list: Neptune A Pluto M
From Riyal?s Screen Image, top of 2nd column: 7h11.2 Nep a 7h10.3 Pl mr

Riyal Screen Image column lists of transiting parans to Eden?s natal planets confirms and matches Hand?s list of transiting parans for Eden.

I am satisfied we now have a reliable computer program (Riyal) that will handle transiting parans to a natal chart or any chart. Again, I thank Juan for this freeware contribution.

Regards, Steve

Hello Steve,

That is excellent news. (about the program and about Hand correctness)

And, with the added benefit that the program was ALREADY written... ie. no (additional) waiting time

Since you have the software and are anxious to spread the word about Parans, it would probably be nice and warranted to present a few examples. (which should be much more easily calculable --- take less of your time)

Interested.

Take care, Steve

Peace

Atlantean

The latitude given for Long Beach is 33?N46'01".

The right ascension of Mars at Eden's birth is given as 321?21' (21:25:25)

The declination given for Mars at Edens birth is -16?36'.

Computing by hand yields an ascensional difference of -11?29'50" and a semi-arc of 78?30'10" (5:14:01).

With the above, her natal Mars rose with a RAMC of 242?52' (16:11:24) and set with a RAMC of 39?52' (2:39:26).

These figures agree with the Solar Fire computations. If geocentric correction is applied to the latitude the difference is so negligible as to be splitting hairs. The same is true if using Fullerton instead of Long Beach.

As to Juan's screen capture, her Mercury and Uranus straddle the MC which is in early Aries. Where is Mercury shown on the MC in that capture?

The screenshot shows the natal (I guess) Sun and Neptune rising virtually together (3:13.4 and 3:14.9, respectively). There is a trine between her natal Sun and Neptune! And a wide trine between transit Sun and Neptune. Nor is the Sun from either chart anywhere near a conjunction with Neptune from the other. Do the natal and event chart, put one around the other, switch them. Do you see any indication of the Sun from one rising with Neptune from either? Perhaps Juan will explain what I am missing here.

Bob

unique_astrology wrote:As to Juan's screen capture, her Mercury and Uranus straddle the MC which is in early Aries. Where is Mercury shown on the MC in that capture?

the listing showed uses the angles of the event.

The screenshot shows the natal (I guess) Sun and Neptune rising virtually together (3:13.4 and 3:14.9, respectively). There is a trine between her natal Sun and Neptune! And a wide trine between transit Sun and Neptune. Nor is the Sun from either chart anywhere near a conjunction with Neptune from the other.

they are in exact conjunction in the natal in 24 Leo tropical. You are evidently using a different data for the natal (apparently you are using April 17th, not August 17th).

Juan

Atlantean wrote:
Since you have the software and are anxious to spread the word about Parans, it would probably be nice and warranted to present a few examples. (which should be much more easily calculable --- take less of your time)

Hi Atlantean,

Indeed! I want to begin my research following Hand?s thoughts about the possibilities for transiting parans. I am particularly interested in transiting parans with the moon. Also, latitude is very important with transiting parans, I am old now, and don?t like to venture far from my nest?it?s become to damn expensive. I feel the moon?s transits could be the main timing triggers since the moon moves 13 degrees per day. The other transiting planets will stay in paran transit for longer periods of time. I first want to set up micro elections for me pertaining to certain parameters, using the benefic aspects of transiting moon parans to my natal chart and current solar return chart. I like to take certain teachings of astrology, using my free choice of a matter, and experiment with these teachings?this is my main ?proof of the pudding,? if the symbolism is indeed working for/in my life. I see and understand certain situations are fated when other people are involved, but I am most interested with my own individuality pertaining to free choices. I truly believe ?Timing is Everything,? and astrology foundation rests on TIME.

Currently, I am having to spend a-lot of time with an ailing (she lives alone) mother. When the time is right I will indeed be spending a-lot of time in my retirement-- researching transiting parans. I will post when I see interesting events with transiting parans, particularly to their symbolism on the World Stage. Not being an astronomer or computer programmer, I have had to wait a long time for a program that would allow me to quickly identify a transiting paran situation. I still believe a specialized computer program, devoted to only the different paran combinations in people?s lives, could possibly revolutionize the field of astrology, since parans are the most potent aspects known in astrology.

Regards, Steve

Hello Juan,

One last quick question...

Do you know why it would "jump" suddenly to the main screen when I ask it to do the Lunar Progression with the "Nicewander Method"???

At first it was giving the listing. Then, when looking at a certain date, it jumped to the main screen instead of showing the results. Now it seems to constantly do this.

[Update: Okay...I went and re-input the Radix data instead of calling it from the Database and now it is working correctly...]

Thanks,

Peace

Atlantean

Juan,

For better understanding...

In the screen line from Riyal (Progressed, Nicewander method)
...can you explain EXACTLY what the Uranus and Neptune references are saying? Uranus and Neptune are both "relating" to the RAMC of the Progressed Lunar Return, right? When it says dL, that is the Descendant of the Lunar...but WHAT EXACTLY is it referencing? Is Uranus AT the descendant of the Lunar? What about the Neptune iR reference?

Normally, I am quick to understand things, but I want to make sure I perfectly understand what this line is saying, since I feel confused!

Peace

Atlantean

Atlantean wrote:In the screen line from Riyal (Progressed, Nicewander method)
...can you explain EXACTLY what the Uranus and Neptune references are saying? Uranus and Neptune are both "relating" to the RAMC of the Progressed Lunar Return, right? When it says dL, that is the Descendant of the Lunar...but WHAT EXACTLY is it referencing? Is Uranus AT the descendant of the Lunar? What about the Neptune iR reference?

The tabulation refers to the angles of the progressed return:

-lunar return Uranus is descending.
-radix Neptune is anti-culminating.

The exact time is somewhere between the corresponding tabular entry and the next tabular entry, and can be calculated manually by linear interpolation, but this precision is rarely needed or significant.

Juan

Hello Juan,

Now I got it.

Thanks for the explanation...

In that line where you say lunar return Uranus is descending, had that been the Moon, would it be the lunar return Moon or would it be the progressed lunar return Moon that was descending?

Don't worry, I think I'm all out of further questions...

Peace

Thanks!

Atlantean

Atlantean wrote:Now I got it. Thanks for the explanation...
In that line where you say lunar return Uranus is descending, had that been the Moon, would it be the lunar return Moon or would it be the progressed lunar return Moon that was descending?

Only natal, return, and transiting planets are checked against the progressed return angles, progressed planets are out.

Juan