Tom - when you release the answers, could you just tell us one of the charts to begin with? Then we get a chance to discuss that chart whilst rethinking the other two with better odds

Deb,

A fornicator?

I knew my guidance counselor didn't cover all the ground!

I had a 100 score in mechanical engineering, just my luck!

Oh well, I'm not as young as I once was, so I can assume by this time, I would have gotten laid off (npi) or replaced by someone much younger, anyway.

Re: The Challenge

I didn't use Traditional methods, though I did arrive at my answer without using the outers, so maybe I get an honorary traditional credit?

Man, can't even schmoooze "the boss".

Oh well, my (hopefully intelligent) guesses stand as per my original posts....

Chart 1... Politician

Chart 2... Actor

Chart 3... Business Executive

Thanks for the challenge, Tom... Right or wrong, I look forward to the wrap-up.

James

hi tom,
thanks for the additional info.. it is always interesting and as i have said a few times for me it is not about getting it right but about learning the process whereby others arrive at there answer.. we all process the astrology differently.. there are many considerations that can be made and we don't treat them all equally which explains why we arrive at different conclusions.. for me watching how others think the astro puzzle thru is most rewarding..

hi deb,
funny thing about dictionaries is they don't include some of the astro words used in astrologers vocabulary.. case in point is your word - magistry.. i haven't seen the word used before in an astro context, but would like to be able to offer a response to you.. the word magistery does however show up in the dictionary :
1.
an agency or substance, as in alchemy, to which faculties of healing, transformation, etc., are ascribed.
2.
Obsolete . mastership.

deb quote :In terms of identifying one planet in each chart to act as the significator of 'magistry', following traditional methods, I would identify it as Mercury in chart 1 and Venus in charts 2 and 3. I wonder if others agree or disagree with that?

i have already stated what i think are the dominant planets to the chart, but i am basing it on factors which may have some of trad astro mixed with my own and or more modern ideas. the question could be asked of me - what do you mean by dominant planets to which i would reply - what i think is the dominant planet to the chart. if that has anything to do with magistry, i am not sure, but think it might..

chart 1 - sun and jupiter - close tie for strongest body in the chart.
chart 2 - mercury
chart 3 - moon

I think you should get full marks for trying James, even if all your answers are wrong.

This comment is for James_m - because he asked for some feedback on his understanding of which planet is best placed by phase, sect, etc. I'll be happy to do that later, but it will be easier for me if you wait until I can upload a table I'm working on.

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To be honest, I haven't looked closely at charts 2 and 3 yet and I'm not sure if I will, but the more I do glance at chart 2 the more I keep thinking it probably is the actor, for the reason I said earlier. I am hesistant over that one, but if I'm wrong I'm wrong - this is not the sort of thing I usually do with astrology (except in thsi forum) so it's all an experiment.
I'm not personally bothered about what systems astrologers use, but in this forum we're trying out traditional techniques. I suppose it was a mistake to pick up on one of your points in mine, but it was only to agree with something.

I don't know much about the inner planet phases, but isn't it true that mercury and venus are more immune to combustion? The problem is that when I look at the Venus I see it in Libra in the 10th.

Well I have read a lot about combustion in traditional works and I haven't noticed anyone saying that it doesn't apply to Venus or Mercury. There seems to be a general view nowadays that Mercury is more immune because it spends much more time around the Sun. I'm not sure if Morin said something about that - perhaps Tom will know. I give Mercury more leeway because I see it as the 'announcer' precisely because when it is oriental it announces the rising of the Sun. So I do believe that Mercury has a special role to play in extending out solar principles. It has a lot to do with the mind, and the Sun is the Creative Mind, so when Mercury is Under the Sun's beams I take that as a deep thinker or someone who is more imaginative and poetical, etc. But that's when it's under the beams and not closely combust - the only thing I have noticed about inferior planet combustion in traditional works is that the limits of severe affliction are expected to be closer than with the other planets. Venus is close enough for me to consider it to be too recently combust and so not free yet - too hidden and weak to be used effectively.
The only circumstance that might have been argued against this in traditional literature is if it had been in its own dignities or the Sun has received it. Because it's close in combustion and in detriment and not received, Venus is not a good planet as far as I'm concerned. It's angular though, so I'm more inclined to think this is a handicap.

It may interest you that Mercury is almost exactly sextile Jupiter and its opposition to Saturn has an 11 degree orb in Chart 1?

Yes, the aspect to Jupiter is tight and so important, and really Mercury's aspect with Saturn is a bit out of orb; but because Mercury's opposition to Saturn is its next application, and Saturn is retrograde (making it a mutually applying aspect) and because Saturn is disposed by Mercury, I think the applying opposition is relevant - especially since Saturn is the ascendant ruler.

Magistry


http://academy.shivtr.com/pages/magistry

or
from Oxford dictionaries online

magister
?
Pronunciation: /?mad??st?, m??d??st?/
noun
archaic
a title or form of address given to scholars, especially those teaching in a medieval university.

Origin:
late Middle English: from Latin, 'master'

PD

Deb wrote:In terms of identifying one planet in each chart to act as the significator of 'magistry', following traditional methods, I would identify it as Mercury in chart 1 and Venus in charts 2 and 3. I wonder if others agree or disagree with that?.

It's not easy to say something without a date. In the second chart Venus is near enough to the Sun, she could be visible or invisible or she could be in her heliacal rising.
We need a place and a date to know...

It's difficult to evaluate a profession without knowing which planets are visible and which not

margherita

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Hi Margherita

In the second chart Venus is near enough to the Sun, she could be visible or invisible or she could be in her heliacal rising.
We need a place and a date to know...

I'm happy to assume that she is in her rising. There is already 14? of arc between the Sun and Venus, and Venus moves at her fastest speed during the superior conjunction when her motion is direct.

Deleted.

Ptolemy wrote:
?Further, should it happen that two arbiters of employment may be found together, and provided they should be Mercury and Venus, they will then produce musicians, melodists, and persons engaged in music, poetry, and songs: they will also produce (especially if changed in their places) mimics, actors, dealers in slaves, makers of musical instruments, choristers and musical performers, dancers, weavers, modellers in wax, and painters. And if Saturn join testimony with Mercury and Venus, the preparation and sale of female ornaments will be added to the aforesaid occupations. But, if Jupiter give testimony, the persons will become administrators of justice, guardians of public affairs, instructors of youth, and magistrates of the people."

I see that only in chart #3 Venus-Mercury connection to MC clearly represented, #3 is actor's chart.
Venus is ruling MC and 5th house of performing art. Also Mercury is triplicity air sign ruler of MC in diurnal chart, aspecting MC sign by opposition.
Saturn is rising before Sun and exalted in MC sign, in mutual reception with Jupiter in 1st house. Jupiter aspecting MC with close square. That Jupiter?s position in 1st house making native personally involved in performances. Also Jupiter is general (3rd) ruler of air triplicity (MC).
Also, as mentioned in Ptolemy?s text, with Jupiter and Saturn involvement its possible to develop some administrative career in artistic field. And Saturn-Jupiter?s location in 4th quadrant makes it possible at later years