Mark wrote: But wlth Russian armed forces building up on the border its hard to see how such an approach can work with Moscow willing to reinforce the rebels to counter Kiev every step of the way.

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/215272.html
Mark

mark,

thanks for sharing more!

i just want to quickly point out that it's very obvious a propaganda war is being waged against russia.. we've seen this in the immediate response from western gov'ts of the mh17 accident and russia's direct responsibility which as of the past few days has completely fallen apart.. the link in your above post from interfax.com, is essentially an outlet for the kiev gov't as i understand it.. i doubt their will be much objectivity in issues related to what russia is or isn't doing (big troop build up and etc), but it would be a good source for other things like yat's resignation..

the same goes for the author of the guardian article in your previous post written by shaun walker.. he wrote an article july 22nd in the guardian which was torn apart in an article i have just read here - under the subheading "More Western Media Manipulation"..

http://www.globalresearch.ca/mh17-verdi ... false-flag


clearly in issues involving war, or the thought of more war, it is imperative that readers maintain a critical viewpoint on what is being said and left out in any of the articles, including any links i have shared here..

Horoscope Ukraine 1991.

Progressive aspect birthday:


24-Aug-2014 028?,07'27 Taurus C--3 90 Ven

speaking of august 24th...

the mars/saturn conjunction is exact in donetsk at 929pm august 25th which is close to the time of the new moon at 2 virgo approx...

if you overlap the cancer ingress chart to the time of the mars/saturn conjunction it looks like the chart below... aside from the obvious conjunction of the mars/saturn on saturns position in the cancer ingress chart - saturn retro to station close to this 17 degree scorpio spot, there are of note some midpoints where important planets/points land - new moon on the mars/jupiter midpoint, mars/saturn chart ascendant 135 cancer ingress ascendant/mars, ma/sa chart midheaven 90 cancer ingress mars/saturn midpoint, and ma/sa chart venus square cancer ingress saturn.. i believe the august 25th date will result in some final outcome in the donetsk area, which will set the tone for an end, or different beginning to this ongoing conflict...


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regarding the conjunction of mars/saturn on august 24/25th -
Independence Day of Ukraine (Ukrainian: День незалежно??ті України) is the main state holiday in modern Ukraine,[nb 1] celebrated on August 24[2] in commemoration of the Declaration of Independence of 1991.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independen ... of_Ukraine

below is the chart and time as given in nic campions book. one will note the conjunction of mars/saturn is taking place right on plutos position in the midheaven.. putin and poroshenko are set to meet in minsk in the next few days to arrive at a possible ceasefire, or? the profected lord off this chart will be jupiter for sag ascendant in this coming year..


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this is a solar return for 2014 off the above chart. it highlights mercury strongly which is the ruler of the 6/9 houses in the root chart. end phase moon here in the 12th house, of the suns house, while the sun itself is in the 12th as well by degree, but not by sign. pluto is again prominent by being in the same degree as the ascendant.


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nov 26th edit picture/chart correction...

i am getting info that the full convoy had crossed into ukraine by 10:30 gmt which would make it 130pm local time.. i am making a guess of somewhere between 110-120pm was the time of the actual crossing.. this ukrainian interfax article gives the time of 1:19pm kiev as saying they have crossed. some of the trucks 34 or 36 were said to be ready to go on the thursday august 21st as well.. not sure if they crossed or waited for the full convoy, before setting off for lugansk..
http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/219524.html

another site mentioned that by 130pm all the trucks had already entered ukraine.. below is a chart for 110pm.. 120pm will push the ascendant which is moving about 1 degree per every 5 minutes to 25 scorpio.. apparently this convoy is all back in russia now.. the ascendant in the 2014 sr off that 1991 ukraine chart is close to the same as the midheaven in this chart..

saturn by transit will be exactly conjunct pluto position in the same 1991 independence chart for ukraine this coming wednesday... i am hoping for some type of resolution to the fighting, but i might be overly optimistic.. hard to know which way this is going to swing.. i think of saturn/pluto combo as having a direct connection to war related events..


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nov 26th edit for picture/chart correction...

poroshenko has dissolved the present ukraine parliament in preparation for an oct 26th election.. i get a time of this announcement close to 11:40am local kiev time. below is a chart for this. what is astrologically interesting to me is the position of saturn at 23 scorpio18 in the feb 26th new gov't chart which is at the same degree on oct 26th.. of course the comments from a week or more ago of the mars/saturn conjunction landing on the 17 degree scorpio midheaven here also seems to be very fitting as indeed we see an important turning point at present with this announcement.. regardless, it is a round trip back to 23 scorpio for saturn from feb 26th to oct 26th... i find that interesting.


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there are interesting reports in kiev post of how the information that the ukraine gov't is sharing with regard to the ongoing civil war in eastern ukraine is not how they or the western media has portrayed it.. for anyone interested - here is a link to the article from yesterday..

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine ... 61886.html

nov 26th edit for picture correction...

here is a video that was put out in the past 1-2 days announcing the "formation of a state" called donetsk national republic with 2 of the dnr leaders giving a press conference and taking questions.. 31 minutes long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... H35raTPVu8

this goes with the astrology i was discussing earlier - mars/saturn conjunction in coincidence with the new moon in virgo.. my conclusion on this previously was some end, or beginning of significance.. in terms of the civil war it appears the battle is taking a different direction and this is discussed early in the video shared above.. how others interpret all this is something outside my control, but i have been following this topic closely while trying to make sense of it astrologically..

here is an article i found quite interesting.. it is primarily the ideas of a fellow named Karel van Wolferen published on august 14th this year.. read it if you are interested in a different perpective, which you will also get via the video i have also shared. it seems to me ukraine is a failed state and like humpty dumpy that feel, will not be put back together in any way resembling the ukraine of the past 20 odd years..

http://www.russiaotherpointsofview.com/ ... .html#more

here is an update based on marjorie orr's post from today on ukraine which can be found here.. http://www.star4cast.com/index2f.asp?pa ... e.asp?id=1

here is the post she makes "Ukraine - sensitive to Uranus in Aries square Pluto From: Marjorie. (03 Sep 2014 11:55):
Ukraine's attempts to gain independence in the 20th Century from the time of the 1917 Russian Revolution were varied and confusing. Nick Campion puts their first true independence date between January 22nd and 28th 1918, though they were in turmoil thereafter and agreed to join the USSR in 1922. There is an earlier historical unification date of 28 June 988 (NS).
Under Stalin there was a brutal campaign of russification in the 20s, 30s and 40s across all the soviet bloc countries - with the Russian language and Russian officials being imposed, much as has happened in Tibet under the Chinese boot. Worse there was a deliberate policy against indigenous populations of mass starvation, blood purges and deportation of vast numbers to Siberia which was equivalent to a death sentence for most.
In the deliberate famine of 1932/33 approximately 10 million died in the Ukraine (extermination by hunger). Although post-Stalin Russian governments admitted the policy was wrong, the scars it left behind are one reason (amongst others) that the ex-soviet bloc countries after the Berlin Wall came down were desperate to make alliances with the west - EU and NATO. Even post-Stalin from 1953 they had lived for decades under a communist straitjacket, terrified into submission by all powerful secret police.
When the Ukrainian 'Holodomor' (hunger extermination) took place in 1932/33 was the last time tr Uranus was in Aries then squaring Pluto in Cancer; and tr Neptune was in early Virgo, as opposed to early Pisces as now. So remarkably similar influences.

here is my response in the comments section of her website -

ukraine From: james. (03 Sep 2014 17:20):
both the charts i have for -ukraine dec 1 1991 8pm kiev and aug 24th 1991 531pm kiev - highlight the transiting pluto/uranus square..

i would imagine saturn transiting the scorpio 21- 24 fixed will be another critical phase in the re-organization of ukraine based on these 2 charts. that would be all of october essentially. transit of pluto is also conjunct natal uranus position in the dec 91 chart for all of oct/nov essentially. dec 1/91 chart has midheaven at 11 aries, squared by uranus at 11 cap, so transiting uranus is not far off either. in the aug 24/91 chart - 8 cap rising with uranus at 10 cap, it is much the same in terms of the influence of the transiting uranus/pluto square. the month of october sees transit saturn squaring onto the 2nd house moon at 22 aquarius. this speaks of the lack of financial resources that ukraine has struggled with and the necessity of getting their house in order financially. whether they sign onto more imf/world bank loans or what - i have no idea - but october would seem to be a critical transitional point for them based on your important observation of the significance of the uranus/pluto historically. thanks for that!

a ceasefire in the civil war has been announced today for 3pm gmt.. this was arrived at in minsk, belarus.. in looking at a chart for 5pm gmt put to kiev and donetsk i get these 2 different charts..

i had the time wrong in my previous comment. here are the corrected charts.
first one is put to location of kiev.


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this one is set to donetsk.


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now to modify my comments! i have mostly just cut them out as i am busy and will attend to this later!

the obvious difference is in terms of the angles and how close planets are to these same angles. kiev chart has 2 aquarius rising, while donetsk chart has 16 aquarius rising.

the sun/moon midpoint is 18 scorpio 43 - where saturn happens to be. i take this as a good sign for the success of this ceasefire. mercury is just past exact 45 to saturn as well..

the concept of a ceasefire strikes me more like jupiter/uranus actually..

jupiter is moving towards a trine to uranus while mercury is widely applying to this and will strengthen over the next week.. all in all that seems to bode well.. i hope it holds and a resolution to this conflict can end.. it would be nice if the international players butted out, but i doubt that is going to happen. i maintain this has been a proxy war for the bigger players all along..

here is another insight off the chart.. jupiter/pluto midpoint is a success midpoint.. it is at 26 libra 05 for the time of the ceasefire to go into effect.. this is the midpoint of sun/midheaven in the donetsk location.. perhaps more then any place, donetsk has been on the receiving end of the bombs and indiscriminate killing of civilians.. it doesn't work out quite as closely using lugansk as the location.. the ascendant for this location is 18 aq directly squared by saturn at 18 - at the nonagesimal...

the mercury/saturn midpoint is also at 26 libra 41.. i think signing an agreement for a ceasefire with these 2 midpoint pictures being the same makes sense and that the likelihood of the ceasefire holding is good.

edit nov 26 for picture corrections...

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i posted a few aries ingress charts yesterday on the iraq and syria 2014 thread.. i was noticing how eastern ukraine would possibly have a similar midheaven axis location which would highlight mars on it.. and for lugansk mars is close to an exact opp to the midheaven degree - 2 degree orb. what is different is the ascendant in sag, as opposed to capricorn in the iraq/syria area.. while the minsk 11 ceasefire agreement is sort of holding, there are still events that suggest it is a very shaky ceasefire with an incident yesterday where a number of innocent civilians were murdered..

edit nov 26 for getting picture back..

three things...

ukraine under poroshenko is asking to put in place martial law... apparently he was not even given the chance today in ukraine parliament.. "KIEV, Ukraine – Some factions of the Verkhovna Rada, blocking the work of the plenary session on Monday,did not allow the president of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, to speak on the imposition of martial law in the country. This is stated by the spokesman of the Petro Poroshenko Bloc party, and they hope to resolve the situation."

and secondly is the issue of what happened yesterday regarding ukraine and russia in the sea of azov near the new bridge russia put in at kerch.. russia has asked for a un meeting on this for today....

thirdly - in visiting this thread from 4 years ago, i see a number of the charts that i had left are no longer visible.. this had to do with the site i posted - postemage.org - changing the codes on the data.. i will see about going in and correcting them over the next while, as without the charts, it is hard to follow the thread!

ukraine is set to vote next march 31st 2019 i believe...this is 2 days after the brexit thing with the uk on march 29th, if it goes thru.. poroshenko is doing poorly in public opinion polls - he is in the 3rd place, behind a ukrainian comedian who hasn't even said he will run yet! i believe it is yulia tymoshenko....

i have 2 charts for poroshenkos swearing in on june 7th 2014 that are a minute apart.. it depends on whether you want to take the swearing in time, or when he signed the papers time... 1 minute changes the ascendant from 21 leo to 2 virgo!!

at the same time i was looking at the 2 charts i have for ukraine, although their is a 3rd from 700's...

dec. 1 1991 8pm... kiev, ukraine..


and aug 24th 1991 534pm kiev, ukraine...


in looking at the transits here, i am leaning towards using the dec 1 1991 chart for use, mostly due the mars-jupiter square that is presently transiting and how it connects to the dec 1st 1991 chart a bit more strongly then the aug 24th chart...

it seems to me that a mars-jupiter square is very problematic and inclines towards an over extended position that ends in disappointment.. i essentially see the actions of the military boats of ukraine as acting imprudently here yesterday and having been seized by russia as a consequence...

again - i will see about revising some of the posts with photos of charts in the earlier part of this thread..

Ukraine's parliament has voted for President Petro Poroshenko’s decree on a month-long martial law after the country’s vessels faced off with Russian ships near Crimea. It affects areas bordering Russia, on both sea and land.

The president also warned about a “serious threat??? of a “ground invasion??? of Ukraine, citing a “secret intelligence document.???

got to love these secret intel documents... that could be true, or not... that is the problem with secret docs... no one can know whether the person using them are lying or not..