Skyscript Astrology Forum

I'm picking up this topic from the previous one:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... 011#112011

...because some of AJ's comments surprised me...not especially in relation to my chart, but to interpretation principles in general.

AJ wrote:

Structure and control for this configuration [Jupiter-Saturn conjunction] come to mind especially since Saturn rules the third.

My understanding is that the third house lord has nothing to do with structure and control. This doesn't sound like India's astrology. Am I wrong?

Debilitated Saturn benefits a lot from Jupiter but would be better if Jupiter were stronger. Being conjunct in Venus's Star it shows you love obtaining and giving knowledge.

I'm not understanding the underlying principle as related to a Venus star, especially in Aries.

Both Jupiter and Saturn are well placed but weakened giving some health concerns, lack of vitality, delay in attaining goals.

Are you suggesting this interpretation because Venus (as Jup/Sat star lord) is lord of the 6th (health) and 11th (goals) houses? (I'd give the topic of vitality to the Sun.)

But if Jupiter is taken as ascendant lord, debilitated Saturn could certainly affect the health, but 5th house placement is good. But I'd want to combine this configuration with 6th house conditions. (Note: Very good health in general, but low physical vitality [debilitated Sun, Mars afflicted by Mercury]; Energy is in the mind.)

Some problems communicating with others.

Kind of a general statement. Mostly I live in silence. Always have. But communication is Mercury, so I'm confused about communication being linked to this configuration. (I presume that you are linking communication as such with the 3rd house. But I would give that to Mercury.)

Asc in Mula causes you to follow the path of wisdom.

Again, this doesn't sound like traditional Jyotish. How can an ascendant star of itself mean much of anything without (in the case of Mula) checking Ketu?

This got me to thinking about the problem of research in astrology. There are a number of "fixed" conditions, such as a nakshatra/mansion belonging to a planet, but that basically means next to nothing until the entire complex of the ruling planet is considered. Fundamentally, this makes it is almost impossible to track down any specifics over a number of charts. It's all individual to a chart...which experienced astrologers know is true....which can leave astrological research out in left field. It's no surprise that astrologers in general have little or no interest in research.

There are quite a number of interpretive questions and approaches in AJ's post. It seems to me that the entire topic of interpretation is a massive topic. Each statement suggests a number of related questions. It all goes back to the fundamental meaning of planets/signs/houses. None of these have been adequately researched with the exception of the planets by the Gauquelins.

Therese Hamilton wrote:I'm picking up this topic from the previous one:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... 011#112011

...because some of AJ's comments surprised me...not especially in relation to my chart, but to interpretation principles in general.

AJ wrote:

Structure and control for this configuration [Jupiter-Saturn conjunction] come to mind especially since Saturn rules the third.

My understanding is that the third house lord has nothing to do with structure and control. This doesn't sound like India's astrology. Am I wrong?

Debilitated Saturn benefits a lot from Jupiter but would be better if Jupiter were stronger. Being conjunct in Venus's Star it shows you love obtaining and giving knowledge.

I'm not understanding the underlying principle as related to a Venus star, especially in Aries.

Both Jupiter and Saturn are well placed but weakened giving some health concerns, lack of vitality, delay in attaining goals.

Are you suggesting this interpretation because Venus (as Jup/Sat star lord) is lord of the 6th (health) and 11th (goals) houses? (I'd give the topic of vitality to the Sun.)

But if Jupiter is taken as ascendant lord, debilitated Saturn could certainly affect the health, but 5th house placement is good. But I'd want to combine this configuration with 6th house conditions. (Note: Very good health in general, but low physical vitality [debilitated Sun, Mars afflicted by Mercury]; Energy is in the mind.)

Some problems communicating with others.

Kind of a general statement. Mostly I live in silence. Always have. But communication is Mercury, so I'm confused about communication being linked to this configuration. (I presume that you are linking communication as such with the 3rd house. But I would give that to Mercury.)

Asc in Mula causes you to follow the path of wisdom.

Again, this doesn't sound like traditional Jyotish. How can an ascendant star of itself mean much of anything without (in the case of Mula) checking Ketu?

This got me to thinking about the problem of research in astrology. There are a number of "fixed" conditions, such as a nakshatra/mansion belonging to a planet, but that basically means next to nothing until the entire complex of the ruling planet is considered. Fundamentally, this makes it is almost impossible to track down any specifics over a number of charts. It's all individual to a chart...which experienced astrologers know is true....which can leave astrological research out in left field. It's no surprise that astrologers in general have little or no interest in research.

There are quite a number of interpretive questions and approaches in AJ's post. It seems to me that the entire topic of interpretation is a massive topic. Each statement suggests a number of related questions. It all goes back to the fundamental meaning of planets/signs/houses. None of these have been adequately researched with the exception of the planets by the Gauquelins.

What I do is India's astrology. If that doesn't meet or your pass your litmus test then I question your analysis. Why am I on trial here? I am not going on the defense to "prove" my delineation and all of the reasoning behind it. I stand by everything I said in that post and how can you say that I did not consider wider placements?
I'm not quite sure why you would launch an attack and wrap it up into a wider rant on interpretation over a handful of sentences to throw in my face.
Just my opinion but you really need to lighten up. I will avoid any further communication with you from here on out I think and that's a shame; I used to value your opinions.

AJ, I didn't mean an attack. Your reaction totally shocked me. It's just that I've done a tremendous amount of thinking about astrological interpretation and symbolism, and I question much of it, both Indian and western. So I only meant to open a discussion about principles of interpretation.

Just one example from India: The third house is said to represent courage. Why is that? The only logical explanation I can think of is that this was dreamed up by a long ago astrologer: the third house traditionally (in both east and west) is said to represent the hands and arms which are used in battle. (So the third house must represent courage!) I would say that it's a mis-assignment to place any psychological traits on the houses which are mundane areas of expression. Psychology belongs to the planets. Courage is most likely a combination of the Sun and Mars. Or maybe only Mars. Common sense says it can't belong to the lord of a mundane house.

This is what happens with astrologers: If one astrologer wants to discuss the analysis of another astrologer (in the interest of clearing up symbolism), there is a defensive reaction rather than a scholarly discussion. Sad...another reason why astrology remains in the entertainment area. Astrologers end up standing alone, each with an individual and comfortable bag of interpretation tools.

AJ, I'm very sorry that you misunderstood the purpose of my post. I've enjoyed discussions with you. I meant my post in a strictly impersonal way, but did use your comments as a jumping off point. I come from a scholarly background and training where open questioning and discussion is the name of the game. This is how we learn and expand our field of study.

Sadly, many astrologers don't understand this, and the reason must be a lack of experience in education and scholarly exchange. This might also be partly an east/west difference. In India the guru's word is not to be questioned. In the west we question everything, and teachers feel they are always learning from the honest inquiry of students.