i want to discuss the 3pm chart for olaf scholz..

in the previous thread here on the 1871 chart for germany,
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=11909

the poster lunlumo was kind enough to share a link to a german astrologer working with this 3pm chart as well..
https://www.andrea-bschlangaul.de/horos ... af-scholz/

i got the 3pm time off astrotheme.. it is said 'from memory' so one would suspect the time has been rounded to the hour which detracts from any fine tuning off the chart for predictive purposes... however, i was motivated to look more closely and my friend AJ has helped guide me with regard to using the D9 or navamsa chart as a possible means of rectifying this chart some... again - not fool proof, but i was intrigued by a few coincidences that show up in the D9 chart that relate back to the 3pm natal chart i am using for olaf scholz... these are - virgo rising in both charts - remember i am using sidereal chart...also jupiter remains in virgo in both the D1 and D9 charts.. another interesting connection is how the sun in D9 chart is at the same degree of jupiter in the D1 chart.... i would show you a biwheel chart for this, but i am unable to do this, even though i can see the charts in my solar fire program on my laptop.. i am unable to transfer them over to this computer...

here are some of AJ's thoughts on all this and more which i think give greater support to the validity of a time in the area of 3pm..

"The navamsa does has resonation with the whole Rasi chart unlike most of the other vargas but it is still primarily luck and partners, marriage or otherwise. In Olaf's case the D9 Lagna spans from 14:52:20 - 15:11:30, there is a good chance then for his birthtime the D9 Lagna is pretty safe. Anytime the Rasi Lagna and navamsa Lagna are the same it puts more emphasis on the D9Lagna lord.

As for vargotamma, it is a highly overrated concept. I know, I know all of the Shastras and books say it is a great thing. In almost all cases it does not simply afford a gain in strength by virtue of being in the same sign in the natal and navamsa, in my experience, unless the natal planet is already strong and unafflicted. What it does then is refine the natal planets energy. If any planet is neecha in the natal and navamsa it would not help, in fact it would weaken it even more. While I'm on the subject, any planet that is neecha in D9 is weakened by 25%.

But to answer your question, I think Jupiter in Olaf's D9 is hammered because it is associated with 12L Sun and afflicted by 6L Saturn in the 7th but only for the purposes of the navamsa as defined above. So this will play out more in personal relationships. Rahu is also in the lunar 7H. The D9 Jupiter does not impact the natal Ju because overall it is very strong. Vargas are usually only count about 25%, they are a derivative chart after all of the root, natal chart, of course there are exceptions.

Natally, Olaf's Jupiter is in detriment but though retrograde is moving pretty slow, not stationary but 17%, I consider any planet under 20% speed as having more clout. natal Ju also gets a nice trine from the well placed 9th house Sun though the Sun is weakened by the opposition from 6L Saturn so the trine is not as bountiful. Jupiter is right on the Lagna and also has directional strength and dispositer Me is in the 9th. Overall, I think this is a good Jupiter. So Ju can be thought of as a ruling planet in this chart. Ju is also positively, exactly aspecting H1, H5, H7, and H9.

Aside to your question but Saturn is a very influential planet in Olaf's chart too, almost to the point of masking a lot of what is going on underneath the outer appearance."

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olaf scholz 3pm sidereal chart via morinus -



many of the planets and etc are in the bounds or terms of saturn as lunlumo had mentioned previously.. this would include mercury, the ascendant ruler which happens to be in an opposition to natal saturn as well..

aside from any observations that one might make off the natal chart, i was most fascinated by the overlap of some of the eclipse charts to olaf scholz natal chart.. as it turns out olafs transits at present include a reversal of the nodal axis and happens to be in line with the upcoming eclipse cycle for 2023.. so the transits and eclipse data take on greater significance in his life at this time as i see it. also i have considered the solar return chart for this year and etc. etc. which i will try to comment on in this post.. first an overlap bwheel of olaf scholz natal with new moon eclipse of april 20th 5:12:19 am to his birth location..



this new moon lands very close to natal ketu in the 7th house, maybe 8 degrees off the descending degree of the chart... the rising degree of the eclipse chart is about exact opposite the rising degree of the 3pm birth chart i am working with here for olaf.. i think this connections are significant and i am thinking aside from this being a major dynamic astrologically for olaf, that there is a good chance he will step down from his role as leader of germany... i base this off a combination of the connections in the eclipse charts along with the set up in the solar return for him this year... ketu is about letting go.. perhaps his relationship to others at this time is under increasing pressure and tension.. i believe germany is caught in a very difficult place historically at this time.. without getting sidetracked with my own political viewpoints, i would like to share a few articles that i believe point in this same direction...

i highly recommend this link which i shared last night in a different thread, for more perspective on what is taking place in the world today and how germany fits into all this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAUD1gxEWxE
THE 3RD WORLD WAR HAS BEGUN : ESCALATION IN UKRAINE WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING - Emmanuel Todd

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... nscription
German politicians and military chiefs suggest return of conscription

https://news.yahoo.com/olaf-scholz-furi ... 00599.html
Olaf Scholz furious after minister ‘went behind back’ over Ukraine tanks

and finally a change.org petition that is making the rounds in germany at present..
https://www.change.org/p/manifestfuerfr ... uerfrieden

obviously it is difficult for an outsider like me to make astute comments on the dynamics of german politics, or on german politicians, but i do try to keep up and am drawn to this particular dynamic due a combination of the astrology and what i am getting from all my reading on international affairs at present..
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now to the 2023 solar return for olaf to his birth place.. firstly, this is an aquarius rising profection year for olaf, so saturns position in the solar return takes on greater significance as i understand the arab astrologers use of profection lord in the solar return chart.. below is the 2023 solar return chart to his birth place..



i always consider planets in angles of the sr chart as having the most significance.. in this chart - remembering it is a 3pm birth time i am using) - we find neptune exactly conjunct the midheaven degree at 3 pisces sidereal.. 2ndly we find pluto 4 1/2 degrees off a conjunction to the 7th house cusp... venus is about 13 degrees off a conjunction to the ascendant... the nodal axis is squaring onto the ascendant axis..

what to take from all this?? maybe other astrologers will interpret it differently but for me the overall picture is that olaf scholz is facing the biggest challenge of his career here.. neptune on the midheaven is not helpful... pluto on the descendant implies conflicts and undermining of one's position such as described in the yahoo news article above... going back to the position of the profection lord at 13 aquarius in this solar return, landing a few degrees away from a sesquisquare to the ascendant degree of 1 cancer, it seems to me the issue of 8th house resources of others, or 9th house - heavy political obligations to others here - take your pick on the hottest topic in astrology today - whs, verses quadrant houses, lol - implies a lot of heavy baggage that can't be swept under the rug so easily!!

just how it all plays out in olaf scholz's life in the next year will remain a secret until it is revealed... i think the astrology points to a significant year and challenge for him professionally and personally.. how he responds and processes it all - i wish him the very best.. the 2023 solar return doesn't kick in until june 14th area around the time of his birthday.. i live charaks idea that looking at solar returns, one needs to look at a few of them all at the same time - say 2022, 2023 and 2024 - to formulate a better and more complete perspective on them all... charak is - dr. k. s. charak.... he also states that were the profection lord lands in the solar return chart is very important... charak and the indian astrologers seem to mostly use whole house signs, so in this example, saturn as profection lord for 2023 ( and 2022) lands in the 8th whole sign from the ascendant in the solar return chart... generally this is viewed negatively given all the connotations of the 8th house... i will stop now.. thanks for reading this far, if you made it this far!!

As a young man he looked like Libran Matt Damon

https://www.rnd.de/politik/olaf-scholz- ... IUFSI.html

thanks orisis...

i am not sure what one can infer from this!

Hello everyone


I played around a bit with Olaf scholz chart and share it here some random comments for what it's worth.

About the birthtime. Yes 3 pm seems rounded. I did look at events with Jyotish and western techniques and found at time at the end of the span AJ suggested.15:11 about.

Jyotish Sidereal
AJ mentioned JUpiter in first house in Navamsha. One peculiar feature of his Jyotish chart with it's divisional charts is that not only in the Navamsha is Jupiter in first house. In fact Jupiter is in the first house in:
Rashi chart
Navamsha chart
Drekkana chart
Chaturthamsha chart
Saptamsha chart
Dashamsha chart
Dwadamsha chart
Siddhamsha chart
Bhavamsha chart

Quite weird actually.
Scholz was actually a lawyer and had a law firm before going into politics - Jupiter.

That Jupiter in first house holds true for a time about 15:11 too, as Scholz have a long ascension rising sign.

Scholz was elected prime minister in Saturn-Venus period Vimshottari dasha.
Venus the subperiod planet was in the key 10th house in his Dashamsha 10th division chart for career. That is a good argument for the time being approximate good 15:00-15:11 about.

Scholz have no children.
His natal saturn is in a troubled karmic state with saturn in late degree sidereal scorpio (gandanta - karmic knot place).
In his divisional chart for children D-7 Saptamsha saturn rules his 5th house as well, and is heavy afflicted sqeezed by malefic mars and rahu in the 3rd house which is a tough one in the divisional charts especially.
That is an argument for this divisional chart being the correct one.

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Tropical

By moving his time to 15:11 his ascendant lands on fixed star * Spica which is succesfull generally. His MC changes sign to ruling Leo 1 degree.
This is the degree his secondary progressed venus (asc lord) is when he became prime minister 2021.

Also when becoming Prime minister solar arc asc opp SUN (natal trine)

Secondary progressed MC sextile Progressed Venus.

His marriage 1998 - primary directed Asc opp Moon roughly
Vice prime minister 2018 - Primary directed asc trine Mars
Prime minister 2021 - Primary directed MC opp Mars ( radix trine)


Well don't know which is correct but sharing anyway.

However interesting is that by Distributing through the bounds his ascendant is through the Jupiter bound now. That Jupiter rising with spica in his chart. Reflecting that success this combination describes. Becoming a world leader.
Participator currenty is Mars. This describes the war like climate that the current state with Ukraine war et.c.
In fact Olaf Scholz took decision to greatly increase the army (mars in 6th).

In the rectified chart Neptune (gas) is squaring his MC which can be scandals and weakness, but also describing the central place gas and energy issues have been in his rule.

thanks stefan

good work! in using the 311pm time, it doesn't change the 2023 solar return very much.. it pushes neptune away from an exact conjunct to the midheaven a few degrees, but brings pluto closer to the descendant degree.. both planets remain the most prominent planets aspecting the angles in the solar return chart for this coming year... see the chart below and compare to the one i posted earlier off the 3pm time...



here is an article i read yesterday that gives more insight into olaf scholz and the political dynamics in germany at present.. again, i think it is relevant in understanding the position and pressure that olaf scholz is under here..
http://www.defenddemocracy.press/wolfga ... s-germany/

Refering to the article (link above):
Scholz's Sun (23 GEM opp. SAT) is conj. the US Mars (chart July 4th, 1776). - I can imagine Scholz's MC is at 1st or 2nd degree Leo. Pluto's approaching AQU, the ingress will be in just a few more weeks...
And simultaneously Uranus will be conj. Mars on the IC of the 1949 chart of the Federal Republic (24th May, 1949 Berlin, 0:00, AC 10 dregrees CAP )

good observations lunlumo

here is the 311pm chart in tropical.. midheaven is at 0 leo 55'56"



pluto doesn't quite make it to an exact opposition to the midheaven before turning retrograde.. of course a slightly earlier time then 311pm will alter this..

The solar 2023 for the Federal Republic of Germany (May 24th, 1949, 0:00 Berlin-Mitte=center).
With JU T-square MA-Opp. PL -
and SUN=MC/PL = MC/MA.

Germany is definitely running the risk of getting involved ...
for the Russian state media Germany is one of the main- fiends,
even worse than the US ("German panzers are going to kill Russians one more time - 80 years after WW II " ) There'a a real hate in those media.
LL

thanks lunlumo

a few things.. first - are you using a dst time for the 0 am 1949 chart? it looks like you are.. this chart is using sidereal zodiac.

here is the may 24, 1949 0:00am using dst.. i believe stefan ran a thread using this 1949 chart earlier here on the mundane forum.. i haven't looked closely at it until now..





i suppose the most striking feature of the chart is mars in aries conjunct the i.c. angle.. much further down in significance is mars square to pluto, and if one wants to just use sign positions only - jupiter is in the opposite sign of pluto and they both square onto the dignified mars..

here is the 2023 solar return chart for this in sidereal..



this chart also shows the jupiter at the top of the t square involving mars-pluto opposition, and it also is aligned closely with the nodal axis and the midheaven axis.. my general view is this.. when a relationship in the natal chart shows up in any of the other predictive charts, it strengthens the likelihood of something coming out in events... in this case, the mars-pluto square in the may 24th 1949 chart is seen in the 2023 as an opposition... the close connection in the 2023 solar return chart of jupiter conjunct rahu - north node, which in turn is exactly conjunct the i.c. supports your astro viewpoint that germany will get more involved... that is my take too..

here is a biwheel with 1949 chart on the inside and 2023 solar return on the outside..



clearly the eclipse cycle for this year is active as we note the similar placement of the nodal axis in the return chart and the may 24, 1949 chart.. it would be interesting to look at the eclipse charts..

Hello

I have been in contact with some German astrology students about the source of his birthtime.

I got the following.

statement from German astrological association:

Here is the statement of the German Association of Astrologers on the birthtime of Olaf Scholz.

https://www.astrologenverband.de/bundes ... e-daten-2/

Abstract:

"Of course, the "round" time invites you to correct the birth time, and we will be happy to keep you up to date about this in the newsletter. But even without birth time correction, the horoscope is impressive with Jupiter on the AC.
Regardless of this, Mercury, Venus and Mars are in their domicile. The man should not be underestimated."

And the trace leads to a polish astrologer who made this statement on his facebook google translate from Polish:

"We did not know the time of birth of the new chancellor of Germany. World data banks of horoscopes of famous people do not provide it, and the lack of knowledge of the horoscope of one of the most important politicians in the world, the fourth or fifth person in the hierarchy of importance after the president of the United States, Russia and China and the head of the European Commission is a huge gap for astrology and astrologers.
However, I have the honor and undoubted pleasure to share with the whole astrological world and everyone who is interested in astrology and politics great news - a real astrological sensation. I have reached the hour of Olaf Scholz's birth, so we can try to analyze what awaits one of the most important figures in world politics.
Source
I received information about the time of birth of the German chancellor from a person who met him privately when he was mayor of Hamburg. This person, who wishes to remain anonymous, is Polish living in Germany and is fascinated by astrology. In a casual conversation while on business, she asked the future chancellor about his time of birth. Olaf Scholz was born on June 14, 1958 in Osnabrück, at 3 pm."

Someone contacted me concerning the "true" chart of the Fed.Re.p of Germany.
So once again: Why is the time May 24th, 1949, Midnight, DST, Berlin correct?
The majority of the astrologers here in G. take the time mentioned above.
The reason:
On May 1st, 1949 the new constitution (called "Grundgesetz") was formally accepted by the majority of the so-called "Parlamentarischer Rat" (the "pre-parliament"). A week later, on May 8th, there was a ceremony: the Proclamation of the Grundgesetz. That was some time in the afternoon in Bonn.
However, one of the last articles of the Grundgesetz clearly states that the new state would come into existence the day following that proclamation. It did not give a precise time - but de iure it is 0:00 Midnight DST. AC: 10 degrees CAPR.
As to the place: Although Berlin was under allied control and actually (partly) until October 3rd, 1990 not a part of the Federal Republic of G. there was a general agreement (in Western Germany) that Berlin (at least the western part, if not all of Berlin) was still the capital of Germany - and Bonn the seat of the Government. After the re-unification there was a vote in the Bundestag in June 1991: Should the Government stay in Bonn or move to Berlin? Well, the voting was in favour of Berlin.

stefan and lunlumo

thank you both... stefan - both astrotheme and the astrologer that did a post on olaf scholz that lunlumo had shared - which i shared in the first post here - seem to confirm the possible basis for the 3pm time for scholz... i still like the time closer to 311pm that you have developed, but without a birth cert - or some wrecktification expert to give us the goods - that is as far as i can get it.. thanks..

lunlumo

that is a bit confusing as an outsider to appreciate, but i appreciate your insights here regardless.. my take is the berlin chart is much more likely given 2 things - and based off the sidereal data.... dignified mars exactly on the ic of the berlin chart seems very suggestive of a strong mars that has been told to stay in the basement!! also this same mars rules the 12 th house... in the bonn chart it is different with mars further away from the ic angle and mars ruling the ascendant... the berlin chart makes more sense to me, but i say all this as an outsider and as someone who hasn't done a deep study of events to back up my premises or intution here... and - it is only one of a number of charts that can be used for germany.. i was more partial to the 1871 chart which i did a thread on.... but i don't discount the value in this 1949 chart... thanks!