ukraine - sidereal 557pm chart - 2023 version and zelensky 1 by james_m back in 2014 i did a post on the astro dynamics as i saw it in january 2014... the thread turned into a really long one of 7 pages... somewhere in january 2022 a poster named woowoo asked if i would be willing to make an update to that thread... there was a lot that got said back then astrologically and if anyone is interested, here is the previous thread from 2014 thru to early 2022.. the title was even modified by the moderators to reflect this updated version... viewtopic.php?t=8042&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 here is the updated version.. since that time i got involved in trying to understand indian astrology more - read a lot of books and tried to apply what i had learned, but i think i would definitely fail if i had to pass a test on indian astrology! thus my present focus on the sidereal zodiac.. the first thing i want to say is that a poster name wojtek pointed out on the previous thread in 2016 how the actual time of the chart for ukraine that many ukrainian astrologers work with is aug 24, 1991 kiev or kyiv of 557pm 2 hours and daylight savings time, as opposed to 531pm which is the data you will find in nic campioins book of world horoscopes 2004 edition.. see wojteks post from Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:42 am on page 6 of the above thread if you are interested in the details for this time offered... ------------------ here is the chart using the data above in sidereal.. here is the position data for the chart including a listing of declination's... you will note 3 contraparallel aspects involving sun and moon mars and pluto neptune and nodal axis one of the first observations i have off the chart, especially if you exclude the outer planets, is a type of seesaw chart with saturn-moon in the first quadrant and all the other planets in the 3rd quadrant.. ordinarily saturn in an approx 15 degree conjunction to the ascendant would reflect on a poor self image, perhaps offset by the strength of saturn in the sign capricorn... it is a bit of a double whammy with moon in capricorn here though... the north node is also in the ascendant in a 2 degree conjunction and typically the nodal axis is considered malefic, although north or rahu is thought of more favourably then south or ketu.... if you believe the nodes have great bearing, following what the nodal axis is doing might be especially relevant for following what is happening with ukraine.. in the western hemisphere are all the other planets - again excluding the outers for the moment.. all the planets with the exception of mars, are in the sign leo, with the sun ruler of leo also here, implying a type of strength of character that offsets the 1st quadrant planetary energies - all as i see it.. the past 2 years has seen the transit of saturn - saturn return, and now its opposition to the leo planets at present... saturn is presently at 13 aquarius, past all the leo planets by degree, but sticking around in the same for the next 1-2 years and of course retrograding and making a fairly long station in the area of 7 degrees leo - right where the sun is in this chart we have for ukraine... so, the thought of the question of how long the leadership will continue with zelensky is an open question here - has been for some time -and there may indeed be a change in the leadership given the coincidence of this long station opposite sun in leo -mostly in october - november of this year.. the saturn station appears to be at 6 something aquarius for a good chunk of oct, and into early november.. i have mostly gone over this chart in a very superficial way.. perhaps someone else would like to talk more about it.. i want to briefly discuss the solar return for this chart with the 2023 solar return for aug 2023 which is the chart shown down below.. there is a lot to say here, and i am sure i will miss out important points.. however, the first thing that i want to mention is how in both the 557pm for ukraine and in this solar return chart for effect aug 2023, pluto happens to be in close proximity to the midheaven.. pluto on the midheaven is some type of leadership that is not what it appears to be... i don't know if one could say that about every leader of ukraine since 1991, but certainly it does colour the ukrainian leadership sphere in some significant way... seeing pluto on the midheaven of this solar return makes me think the likelihood of a change of leadership is much higher though as a consequence.. this combined with the station of saturn opp natal sun in the 557pm strengthens this viewpoint.. here are some notes i have written to my friend aj earlier, before i started this post! i see solar return midheaven degree is close to the 557pm ukraine saturn position.. saturn is 7 cap 52 in the ukraine chart... sr 2023 midheaven is 2 cap 50 with sr pluto at 4 cap something... the 2 charts have pluto on the midheaven essentially... generally i take that to mean some significant change in the leadership.... i have been wrong before! if you also factor in the solar return opposition with saturn and sun - that could also lend weight to this idea.. saturn rules 9/10th whole sign houses.. sun rules 4th whole sign houses.. sr moon is kind of squaring onto both ends of the opposition.. moon rules 3rd, and i.c. point.. sr midheaven is in the square of the rka.. at the same time sr jupiter and uranus are close to the i.c. point of the 557pm chart.. the sr mars is essentially doing a mars return of sorts... it would be interesting to look at the mars return here given the close proximity of mars in both charts.. here is aj's response - "What I noticed that you hadn’t mentioned is that the 6th natal house comes to the SR ascendant squared by nJu solar return 8th lord. Sure point to major disagreements within the nation as a whole. srJu and Uranus are rising in the solar return and in t-square with the nMo and nJu-Me. The Moon would bring the 4H and the public into the dynamic of unrest. The sr4H contains the natal stellium in an uncomfortable inconjunct with srPl and nSa poised on the srMC. All of this with the sr6L Mars speaks of internal strife in the Ukrainian government. It’s a 5H profection year and the Sun is afflicted by sr Rahu and nJu and nVe the solar return 6th and 8th lords. I would say this ties in with your observations of Saturn and Pluto on the sr MC." ----------------- here is the biwheel with solar return on the outside and radix on the inside.. here is the biwheel with solar return on the INSIDE and radix on the outside... perhaps others would like to comment? thanks.. Last edited by james_m on Tue Oct 31, 2023 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total. Quote Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:35 am
Ukraine 2 by amymaddalozzo James Excellent job! I started to wonder about the leader of the Ukraine awhile ago. There are rumors of corruption--which would not surprise me. He is going to bankrupt the US if the leader of UKRAINE keeps this up. I think some politicians in the US ARE on to him Amy amy maddalozzo Quote Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:24 pm
Re: ukraine - sidereal 557pm chart - 2023 version 3 by james_m ukraine has been pushed off the radar due the israel-palestine conflict.. but i was thinking of how long zelensky can continue on.. i see in some of the commentary i made here earlier in the year, i was asking the same question.. previously this fellow oleksii arestovych came to my attention as a possible contender to zelensky.. zelenksy was on the cover of time magazine last year as person of the year... the upcoming time magazine this year has him again on the cover, but in a different context.. https://time.com/6329188/ukraine-volody ... interview/ here is a wiki page on oleksii arestovych. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleksii_Arestovych here is an article with a picture of him, talking about the future of ukraine and elections from oct 2023.. you'll need a translator for the data.. https://strana.news/news/447151-zapad-z ... ovich.html here is a day chart for him in the absence of any birth time available.. sidereal zodiac. not too much to comment on without an actual birthtime... transit uranus is in close proximity to his natal mars... transit pluto has passed opposition to his natal saturn, and eventually will move to oppose the other planets - sun/mercury in cancer.. zelensky on oct 4th 2023 again implied the possibility of elections in spite of war.. It is necessary to change the legislation. Zelensky allowed the possibility of holding elections in war 18:40, October 4, 2023 https://strana.news/news/446977-prezide ... vojny.html so i suppose it is a question of will there be a change in the leadership of ukraine? what is the fate of ukraine at this point in time? i have suggested as much in my earlier commentary.. hard to know given the uncertainty of birth times and etc.. collectively i know stefan and i had gone over the possible birth time for zelensky and i am not sure what thread here on skyscript where that is located.. i am going to change the title of this thread to include zelenskys name in it.. Quote Tue Oct 31, 2023 5:15 pm
Re: ukraine - sidereal 557pm chart - 2023 version and zelensky 4 by james_m there seems to be a number of articles surrounding the concept of zelensky having some challenges to his power... perhaps the most important, i have linked at the bottom of this post.. there were a few articles the past week in the economist connected with Gen. Valery Zaluzhny appraisals of where ukraine is at present.. these in turn generated some anxiety and zelensky even responded to curtail the idea that ukraine was falling behind the ape ball.. here is one to give a flavour of the mood.. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/were-losing-u ... 54951.html there is of course no birth time for zaluzhny, but a day chart is shown for him below.. july 8, 1973, set for noon dst - Zviahel, ukraine - sidereal/ krisnamurti. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerii_Zaluzhnyi one observation is mars in the suns 10th house, which i associate with someone in a military position.. he also has a saturn-pluto square which i associate generally with war and the challenges associated with hardship more generally.. he would be privy to much of what this ongoing conflict or war has cost ukraine. whether he could be considered leadership potential in any future election in ukraine remains to be seen, but he might be considered a contender.. my thinking is that the longer this goes on and the more the media is signalling a change where russia is getting the upper hand, the more likely it implies that the leadership of zelensky is in jeopardy.. .. also the idea that there will be no negotiations is something that zelensky has remained adamant about... the west may be getting tired of having to support an ongoing conflict/war where there are no positive results forthcoming.. thus the possibility of zelensky having to step down become more pronounced.. in looking at zelenskys chart - the slow creep of transit pluto towards a conjunction with his sun imply a complete breakdown and rebuilding is in store for him in the next couple of years.. the 2023 solar return with sr ascendant close to a conjunction with his natal uranus may indicate a sudden surprise associated with all this.. it is hard to know.. sr mars also lands in his natal 12th house which can't be seen as favourable.. this implies hidden enemies who may have the upper hand on him.. below is a biwheel with his natal on the inside and 2023 solar return on the outside.. sr venus - ruler of his natal ascendant is in a very close opposition to natal saturn, another depressing indicator as well.. at the same time profection lord for this year is saturn/aquarius.. as i understand it, this puts greater emphasis on saturn in the 2023 solar return chart.. in the sr chart it is in the 5th whole house sign aquarius in a close conjunction with venus and opposite natal saturn as i mentioned earlier.. saturn in the 5th on its own doesn't do so well in popularity contests... maybe sr venus their helps, but i am not sure.. it is relatively free from obstruction in the solar return chart, but connecting it with the natal chart presents the challenge of it being in the opposite sign, in direct opposition to his natal saturn in leo.. his natal chart - ( i am using the 1:55pm chart) has moon in cancer in a close conjunction to the ic which bears a reflection on his strong nationalistic streak and more broadly the support he has had up to this point anyway.. the 2 planets jupiter and neptune straddling the ascendant axis speak of optimism, but perhaps a level of misguided optimism in the faith he has had for nato and friends to bale him and his country out indefinitely... below is his natal chart again for reference... here is an article that is very relevant to the idea of zelensky and elections.. it appears that he has changed his mind on allowing elections to happen and made the announcement coming right on the heels of the info highlighting his general - zaluzhny.. coincidence or not? https://www.newsweek.com/zelensky-ukrai ... ns-1841443 here is an article in the new york times from 2 days ago which is also relevant to the conversation.. Zelensky Rebuke of Top General Signals Rift in Ukrainian Leadership https://archive.ph/2S0sE Quote Mon Nov 06, 2023 10:48 pm
Re: ukraine - sidereal 557pm chart - 2023 version and zelensky 5 by james_m i had mentioned the question of how long will zelensky continue as the leader of ukraine.. in the past week there has been a number of unsubstantiated rumours over zelensky firing the head of the armed forces - zaluzhny... it really isn't clear what is going on, but victoria nuland was in ukraine earlier this week - not handing out cookies like she back in 2014, or saying 'f the eu' so far as i know, but it seems there is some uncertainty in the air around who is running things in ukraine at present, and / or who is vying for the position of the leadership - politically and militarily.. i covered much of this in my previous post from november 2023, however i happened to see the mercury-pluto conjunction which is coming up in a few days - monday to be exact - happens to land at 6 capricorn - sidereal, which is exactly opposite zelenskys mars position at 6 cancer... in fact this ongoing position of pluto continues to oppose his mars, and is in much the same position in early november 2024 where mars does mars return in zelenskys chart.. i generally view any hard aspects with mars and pluto as a dangerous indicator.. while this combo is not present in his natal chart, it is still a concern by transit as i see it when pluto opposes natal mars.. in looking at his solar return for 2024 - he just had a birthday a little over a week ago - i see the ascendant lands in the same degree area as his midheaven degree.. i would think this is positive... profections it is a pisces - jupiter year... jupiter is in aries in the solar return... the moon in the solar return returns to its natal sign cancer which is also favourable as i see it.. perhaps his popularity will have an upward swing over this topic of zaluzhnys potential as a rival to his position of power, or perhaps he will step down to devote more time to his personal life and family - sr moon in cancer, and highlighted by the ascendant of the solar return chart.. Quote Sun Feb 04, 2024 12:51 am
Re: ukraine - sidereal 557pm chart - 2023 version and zelensky 6 by Carl james_m wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:35 am back in 2014 i did a post on the astro dynamics as i saw it in january 2014... the thread turned into a really long one of 7 pages... somewhere in january 2022 a poster named woowoo asked if i would be willing to make an update to that thread... there was a lot that got said back then astrologically and if anyone is interested, here is the previous thread from 2014 thru to early 2022.. the title was even modified by the moderators to reflect this updated version... viewtopic.php?t=8042&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 here is the updated version.. since that time i got involved in trying to understand indian astrology more - read a lot of books and tried to apply what i had learned, but i think i would definitely fail if i had to pass a test on indian astrology! thus my present focus on the sidereal zodiac.. the first thing i want to say is that a poster name wojtek pointed out on the previous thread in 2016 how the actual time of the chart for ukraine that many ukrainian astrologers work with is aug 24, 1991 kiev or kyiv of 557pm 2 hours and daylight savings time, as opposed to 531pm which is the data you will find in nic campioins book of world horoscopes 2004 edition.. see wojteks post from Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:42 am on page 6 of the above thread if you are interested in the details for this time offered... ------------------ here is the chart using the data above in sidereal.. here is the position data for the chart including a listing of declination's... you will note 3 contraparallel aspects involving sun and moon mars and pluto neptune and nodal axis one of the first observations i have off the chart, especially if you exclude the outer planets, is a type of seesaw chart with saturn-moon in the first quadrant and all the other planets in the 3rd quadrant.. ordinarily saturn in an approx 15 degree conjunction to the ascendant would reflect on a poor self image, perhaps offset by the strength of saturn in the sign capricorn... it is a bit of a double whammy with moon in capricorn here though... the north node is also in the ascendant in a 2 degree conjunction and typically the nodal axis is considered malefic, although north or rahu is thought of more favourably then south or ketu.... if you believe the nodes have great bearing, following what the nodal axis is doing might be especially relevant for following what is happening with ukraine.. in the western hemisphere are all the other planets - again excluding the outers for the moment.. all the planets with the exception of mars, are in the sign leo, with the sun ruler of leo also here, implying a type of strength of character that offsets the 1st quadrant planetary energies - all as i see it.. the past 2 years has seen the transit of saturn - saturn return, and now its opposition to the leo planets at present... saturn is presently at 13 aquarius, past all the leo planets by degree, but sticking around in the same for the next 1-2 years and of course retrograding and making a fairly long station in the area of 7 degrees leo - right where the sun is in this chart we have for ukraine... so, the thought of the question of how long the leadership will continue with zelensky is an open question here - has been for some time -and there may indeed be a change in the leadership given the coincidence of this long station opposite sun in leo -mostly in october - november of this year.. the saturn station appears to be at 6 something aquarius for a good chunk of oct, and into early november.. i have mostly gone over this chart in a very superficial way.. perhaps someone else would like to talk more about it.. i want to briefly discuss the solar return for this chart with the 2023 solar return for aug 2023 which is the chart shown down below.. there is a lot to say here, and i am sure i will miss out important points.. however, the first thing that i want to mention is how in both the 557pm for ukraine and in this solar return chart for effect aug 2023, pluto happens to be in close proximity to the midheaven.. pluto on the midheaven is some type of leadership that is not what it appears to be... i don't know if one could say that about every leader of ukraine since 1991, but certainly it does colour the ukrainian leadership sphere in some significant way... seeing pluto on the midheaven of this solar return makes me think the likelihood of a change of leadership is much higher though as a consequence.. this combined with the station of saturn opp natal sun in the 557pm strengthens this viewpoint.. here are some notes i have written to my friend aj earlier, before i started this post! i see solar return midheaven degree is close to the 557pm ukraine saturn position.. saturn is 7 cap 52 in the ukraine chart... sr 2023 midheaven is 2 cap 50 with sr pluto at 4 cap something... the 2 charts have pluto on the midheaven essentially... generally i take that to mean some significant change in the leadership.... i have been wrong before! if you also factor in the solar return opposition with saturn and sun - that could also lend weight to this idea.. saturn rules 9/10th whole sign houses.. sun rules 4th whole sign houses.. sr moon is kind of squaring onto both ends of the opposition.. moon rules 3rd, and i.c. point.. sr midheaven is in the square of the rka.. at the same time sr jupiter and uranus are close to the i.c. point of the 557pm chart.. the sr mars is essentially doing a mars return of sorts... it would be interesting to look at the mars return here given the close proximity of mars in both charts.. here is aj's response - "What I noticed that you hadn’t mentioned is that the 6th natal house comes to the SR ascendant squared by nJu solar return 8th lord. Sure point to major disagreements within the nation as a whole. srJu and Uranus are rising in the solar return and in t-square with the nMo and nJu-Me. The Moon would bring the 4H and the public into the dynamic of unrest. The sr4H contains the natal stellium in an uncomfortable inconjunct with srPl and nSa poised on the srMC. All of this with the sr6L Mars speaks of internal strife in the Ukrainian government. It’s a 5H profection year and the Sun is afflicted by sr Rahu and nJu and nVe the solar return 6th and 8th lords. I would say this ties in with your observations of Saturn and Pluto on the sr MC." ----------------- here is the biwheel with solar return on the outside and radix on the inside.. here is the biwheel with solar return on the INSIDE and radix on the outside... perhaps others would like to comment? thanks.. Zelensky is in a 11th house profection ruled by a nasty Mars opposite his Sun from the 3rd house of neighbours. Quote Sun Feb 04, 2024 3:33 pm
Re: ukraine - sidereal 557pm chart - 2023 version and zelensky 7 by james_m hi carl thanks for pointing that out! as it turns out, i am looking at this in sidereal, as opposed to tropical.. as a consequence what is aries on the 11th or mars ruling the 11th in tropical is pisces on the 11th with jupiter ruling it in sidereal... this might be a whole other conversation, but i have noticed this is also a huge problem for those using terms in tropical verses sidereal as you get completely different dynamics and conclusions!! and on that note, i will add one of my own observations... i wanted to understand the differences in my own situation and one of the ways that i tried to do it was via solar returns... you get completely different solar return data depending on which zodiac you use... now, i am not going to try to convince anyone here of anything, but this is one of the reasons that i have found sidereal zodiac as more in line with my own experience... and i say this having spent a huge amount of time inside the tropical zodiac system and one who loves the symbology off this sun-earth symbolism of tropical zodiac... so, i am not trying to convince anyone of my own bias, but at present i have come to the conclusion certain techniques and tools in astrology are very subjective in nature... what might seem to work for one person, might not for another.. and the same goes for the use of zodiacs, which is why i am open and receptive to using or considering both!! well, this is the first rant i have had at skyscript since my exchanges with martin on the rising, culminating thread... i may get back to ranting here, but i am in no hurry.. cheers james back to the topic of zaluzhnys possible firing by zelensky - https://twitter.com/I_Katchanovski/stat ... 5203497357 Quote Sun Feb 04, 2024 4:37 pm