https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javier_Milei

argentina has been in the news lately as one of the new members of brics.. they have an election coming up fairly soon - oct 22nd, which happens to be the birthday of a candidate who appears to have come up in the polls and appears as a controversial figure. - javier milei.. as it turns out there is an accurate birth time for him off astrotheme, although i don't see any verification of this specific time of 2:11 am..
https://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Javier_Milei

there appear to be 2 charts for argentina via nic campions book of world horoscopes... one for the revolution may 25, 1810 and another one for the formal declaration of independence... the one for independence seems to have some support for a 2pm time, so i am sharing the independence chart immediately below.. this is in sidereal zodiac, krisnamurti ayanamsa..


i don't know that much about argentina, other then they're being plagued with financial woes for a number of years.. this article gives a good overview on them if you'd like to know about this - https://finance.yahoo.com/news/argentin ... 43776.html
perhaps some of the financial woes can connect with 2nd house ruler jupiter in the 12th, or the cluster of important planets in the 8th.. it is a see saw chart as i understand it with the cluster north node to mars, being opposed by the biquentile from jupiter to pluto..

javier milei chart is interesting with saturn on the degree of the midheaven in what is a nocturnal chart with moon in cancer rising.. the moon in cancer rising would explain some of his popularity, and i believe it was the french researchers that found a higher connection with moon prominent and politicians which might explain some of the appeal of this fellow.. below is his chart in sidereal..



because his birthday coincides with the upcoming election day, i was motivated to do a solar return chart for him to his birthday this year... below is the solar return chart for oct 22nd, 2023.



i don't think it looks especially promising and perhaps the election date will be cancelled for all i know.. sr ascendant landing in the 8th house of the natal isn't encouraging.. the close conjunction of sr uranus on the midheaven though is intriguing.. perhaps he will surprise people including the astrologers, lol.. i am sure it looks different using tropical zodiac..

anyway - all food for thought and it won't be long before argentina is in the news either way..

it appears javier milei has indeed won the argentina election here today...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/19/world/ar ... index.html

here is a relevant substack article from roger boyd as well..

https://rogerboyd.substack.com/p/argent ... lei-sticks

although i thought the election was to be on oct 22nd, i don't properly understand the election process in argentina..

here is what it says at wkipedia -
"General elections were held in Argentina on 22 October 2023 to elect the president, vice president, members of the national congress and the governors of most provinces. As no presidential candidate won a majority in the first round, a runoff was held on 19 November, in which Javier Milei defeated Sergio Massa."

perhaps i can look at this more closely tomorrow using the open or closing of the election poll today - nov 19th and to also see if there is a chart for the other candidate who was leading going into this election run off today..

james_m wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2023 7:41 pm javier milei.. as it turns out there is an accurate birth time for him off astrotheme, although i don't see any verification of this specific time of 2:11 am..
https://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Javier_Milei

Hi James: Like you, I don't have much knowledge of Argentine politics, though I have seen some headlines over the past week about the elections there. Most of the reporting was about how Milei is a self-described "anarcho-capitalist" and someone outside of the conventional body politic. Typical of most of the reporting I read was this from the BBC. "Javier Milei has been likened to former US President Donald Trump and Brazilian ex-leader Jair Bolsonaro."

Sorry to cloud the issue... There are conflicting times.
ADB gives a time of 23:59 with a AA rating for October 22, 1970, in Buenos Aries, with the following source notes:

Source Notes
Birth certificate in hand from Guilherme Salviano, copy on file; birth time recorded as "24 horas" (24:00 o'clock) on 22 October.
We interpret this as 'at the end of the day, in the night of 22 to 23 October'.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Milei,_Javier

The comment in the source notes that they (ADB) had to interpret the time, which seems a bit odd.

The astrotheme site also provides an excerpt of a BC for the 2M time here provided by Roger Fox:
https://www.astrotheme.com/images/Javie ... ficate.jpg.
Which is correct?
I wonder if there are any Argentine astrologers out there who can tell us which chart they are using for him.

The Ascendant for the midnight chart is very afflicted, and Rahu (NN) is very prominent in this configuration as it also seriously impacts the fallen Sun and Mercury. In fact, the Nodes afflict all of the odd houses in this chart. I do have some strong concerns with the Rahu (NN) afflictions, especially the ones to the Ascendant, that Milei is not showing his true self.

Currently, Milei is in a Mo/Ju dasha. The 2L Moon is strong in it's own house, and there are three planets in the auspicious 5th house. Jupiter is in the 5th, ruling two angles, the 7th and 10th, so this is appropriate for great recognition and worldly position. He would come across as a man with a plan for the people. Milei, with the Sun conjunct Me, has some strong managerial skills, and both are closely aspected by Rahu (NN). Venus has just come off station in the 6th house and, though badly placed, is another indication of management and isn't afraid to take on difficult tasks.

That's enough for now.
Be Well.

thanks for taking a look into this aj!

of course websites update and revise their info all the time... when i looked at this a few months ago the time was said to be 211 pm for the birth of milei off a birth cert or record submitted by robert fox... what is interesting is i had said 211am - so either they changed it to 2am, or i messed up with the additional 11 minutes.. either way - the adb page wasn't available or no where near as conclusive as astro theme... one of the source notes from adb says this - "There is however a dispute whether it really says 24 or rather 2 H"... it is always difficult when one doesn't have a secure feeling about the times being bandied around..

james_m wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:43 pm the adb page wasn't available or no where near as conclusive as astro theme... one of the source notes from adb says this - "There is however a dispute whether it really says 24 or rather 2 H"... it is always difficult when one doesn't have a secure feeling about the times being bandied around..

Hey James: There is something screwy here. Last night, when I looked on the ADB page for Milei, there was no mention of the dispute over the birth time in the source notes. In fact, as I remember, I copied the source text in its entirety at the time.

As you say, "of course websites update and revise their info all the time..." but this is pretty fast and confusing.

Do they have the actual documentation in hand or are they just using second-hand submissions?

Still, which chart?

Or should we give the data sites a few days to come down from too much caffeine? LOL

aj

this is in line with my earlier comment - they are updating and revising in the moment... when i looked a few months ago as memory serves - there was no adb page for him..

i go with your later suggestion, lol..

on the adb site there is a picture of the birth cert
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/File:Milei.png

it is shown as 24 hours, which is not quite the same as 11:59pm... but they seem to want to peg it on the 22nd.... 24 hours would be the 23rd 0 hours..
now it is possible the 4 is a bastardized H - it is hard to tell.. i say this given the earlier time of 2 am mentioned...

and to further muddle the playing field - here is the new note from adb -
"There is however a dispute whether it really says 24 or rather 2 H. The word 'horas' follows already after the hour field, so an H. would be superfluous. A better copy of the registry record will be welcome. We have downgraded the rating to C, and added an alternative time of 2 am."

The scan of the partial birth certificate used by astrotheme and ADB came from an Argentine newspaper:
https://caras.perfil.com/noticias/celeb ... wsky.phtml
Where it discusses that Milei was accused of using a fake name and hiding a Jewish ancestry. Interesting reading.

I agree with the ADB editor; it is a shame we do not have a better and larger copy. There are no other 4's on the partial we have of the BC to compare too. It's pretty difficult when writing an 'H' to do a partial stroke on the first vertical. The one H in the picture is clearly written, so at least from that, we can perhaps conclude the person filling out the BC did not have a tick for writing their "H's" in an odd way.

Otherwise, in isolation, it does look like an odd 4, but as you point out, what an odd way of writing midnight or military time. It seems unlikely that the date is wrong.

Perplexing.

regardless of the actual time of birth of javier milei, we can say that argentina has been plagued with financial troubles, much of it related to imf loans and that at present they continue to be in a very tough place as a result of this.. no one has challenged the usurious nature of these loans given out by the imf either.. now along comes the knight in shining armour who is going to fix all this by making using the usa$ instead of the argentina peso, and inviting a different type of slavery, but one where the usa federal reserve holds the puppet strings... this seems like a case of argentina jumping from the frying pan into the fire..

the mars- saturn square is exact this friday.. i have set the chart below for buenos aires, the same place of javier mileis birth place... it just so happens that this square lands very close to mileis nodal axis which squares onto his natal venus/neptune conjunction.. first is the chart for the mars- saturn square exact...



below is a biwheel with the above chart on the outside and mileis 2am chart on the inside..



i am favouring the 2am chart for milei for a number of other reasons, but it seems to me that the fact this square so close to the election date and emphasizing the 5/8 houses in his natal chart would also support the dynamic he is inheriting at this moment in his rise to power.. just how he navigates this is anyone's guess... i may go into more detail on why i think the 2am time is a better reflection, but not for the moment... the other interesting transit to the 2am chart is pluto on the descendant.. i get the impression argentina is going to find out a lot more about this fellow and they are not going to be happy either and he will meet some stiff resistance to his economic plans going forward.. whether he gets the backing of the international financial markets - hard to know..

now, here is a biwheel for the mars-saturn square on the outside, with the 2359 birth time for milei on the inside..



this puts the emphasis of this mars-saturn square for friday on the 6/9 houses of the 2359 chart for milei.

a further consideration is the fact the transiting nodal axis is conjunct mercury, the ruler of the 2359 ascendant.. it is south node or ketu conjunction mercury in both charts, but in the 2359 mercury rules the first and 4th house, whereas in the 2am chart mercury rules the 12th and 3rd house..

another important difference between the 2 charts is the 2 planets - moon and saturn are on the 2am angles, whereas in the 2359 chart, nothing is on the angles.. i welcome others thoughts on the idea of which chart is a better fit.. thanks..

relevant article for gaining an insight into the challenges milei faces as he takes power on dec 10th..
https://english.elpais.com/internationa ... l#?rel=mas

Thank you for bringing up this topic.
Today, I've gathered some background information, and when I have time, I'll continue exploring, including astrological analysis.

Juan Perón
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Perón

Eva Perón
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Perón

Evita (1996 film)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evita_(1996_film)

Don't Cry For Me Argentina
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3StRD_lfiqw

Peronism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peronism

Argentina's relationship with China

Earlier this year, under the influence of China's lobbying efforts, the BRICS countries, consisting of Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa as the original member nations, announced that Argentina, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, Ethiopia, and Iran will join the group as new members starting from 2024.

Since last year, Argentina has become the first major economy in Latin America to join China's Belt and Road Initiative.

https://www.cna.com.tw/news/aopl/202310180014.aspx

Javier Milei has not secured control of the Congress (neither Senators nor Deputies has a majority of seats), indicating potential challenges for his future governance.

National Congress of Argentina
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... _Argentina

https://www.congreso.gob.ar/constitucio ... ingles.php

2023 Argentine primary elections
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Arge ... _elections

2023 Argentine general election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Arge ... l_election

Aries 2023 set for Buenos Aires Aries 2024 set for Buenos Aires

regarding the brics comment, will it be an unipolar or multipolar world? it seems some are working hard to make it one or the other..

i still favour the 2am birth time for javier milei...

here's why... the time of milei being sworn in was ascertained to be 1156am and discussed on a new thread on javier milei that zosma created here..
https://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12311

i have done a biwheel to this time ofdec 10th 2023 1156am buenos aries with both charts it appears the midheaven axis is more highlighted in the 2am time, then it is in the 1159pm time... the uranus/moon opposition in the event chart sits on the midheaven axis in the 2am chart..

perhaps others have some thoughts on this? i may comment on what i think of the chart itself at a later moment.. for now, here are the 2 biwheel charts - the first one for the 2am birth time on the inside and the 2nd one for the 1159pm birth time on the inside..





below is the event chart itself... all these charts are in sidereal zodiac..