Here's today's game chart, the first of 3, scheduled for 7:07PM at the Rogers Centre, Toronto, ON Away Team - Challenger - Boston Red Sox

• L1 Jupiter (superior planet) retrograde (weakness) in 15 Taurus (term) in 2nd (moderate strength)
• Moon separating from trine of Pluto in the 11th, according to Brady, this is the house of training and prepared plays
• Jupiter is applying to the Ascendant (believe I missed this in the Texas series) (strength)

Home Team - Defender - Toronto Blue Jays

• L7 Mercury (inferior planet) in 8 Virgo (domicile, exaltation) in 6th (weak)
• Moon applying to conjunct Mars in the 7th, Mars is in detriment in Libra. Bonatti says a malefic in square or opposition to the 1st or 7th, unless it rules the house by domicile or exaltation, indicates the team will not execute properly unless a benefic is in or aspecting the house. Given the Jays play in the Rangers series this seems to be the case for a malefic in the house as well (Mars has been in Libra in the 7th for all the games we've looked at so far).
• Mercury is Stationary Direct (SD). At its second station, going direct, is a strength. It's applying to the trine of Jupiter (L7), the aspect won't be perfect until September 25 and according to Janus it is being "frustrated" by the Moon multiple times from now until then. "Frustration" certainly fits the Jays at the moment.

Overall, Boston looks to be in better shape, I think they will win today, not the Jays.

Tonight the Jays have a very strong position. What Sophia Mason calls a 'modified T-Square'.
The daily MC in opposition to transiting Jupiter and squaring transiting Venus. They tap into this square.
Plus a grand trine involving the daily AS with transiting Uranus and Sun. Trines and sextiles are weaker but not in the case of a Grand Trine.
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The Red Sox have a quincunx from daily MC to natal Venus/Uranus and the MC is past the current Venus/Jupiter square.
The daily AS is squaring the transiting Sun.
They also have the natal Vertex conjunct daily POF. I have never seen this one so it is a grey area right now.
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Advantage Blue Jays.

Well, here we go, conflicting calls on which team will come out on top lol. I like how you two sharing your thoughts on these charts makes for a kind of Matryoshka event - a match-up nested inside a match-up, with further match-ups to follow. Having two different techniques employed side-by-side, one modern and the other classical makes for an interesting twist. Thanks to you both for taking the time to post your analyses. I'll be following along.

Yes, should be interesting. The fan in me hopes Ouranos is right

If Ouranos looses, he will be sliced by a guillotine in thin layers of salami!

janegca wrote: Yes, should be interesting. The fan in me hopes Ouranos is right

Ouranos wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 11:30 pm If Ouranos looses, he will be sliced by a guillotine in thin layers of salami!
:-?

Sox-0 Jays-3
Looks like you both have reasons to be satisfied with the outcome. :)

Similar to yesterday
The Jays still in the Venus - Jupiter square and the Vertex conjunct their daily ASC in a grand trine with Sun and Uranus
Plus their natal MC sesquiquadrate the Moon-Mars conjunction.
The Red Sox not much going on.

Ouranos wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 11:30 pm If Ouranos looses, he will be sliced by a guillotine in thin layers of salami!

lol...kudos Ouranos, no need for the guillotine.

Taking a look at where I think I went wrong on yesterday's game:

• taking "Moon applying conjunct Mars" when it was the Sun and ignoring the "Moon applying to Uranus" that came before it
• mistiming Mercury moving to its 2nd station, I assumed it would influence the outcome on the 14th and did nothing but it actually went SD on the 15th and does seem to have helped the Jays
• in reviewing the games think I may have mistaken the effect of Mercury applying to the opposition of Saturn during every Texas game as the aspect was not going to perfect; it's possible it did actually effect the team during the 4 games
• not being strong enough on horary rules as I believe similar techniques apply, especially with regard to the Moon; need to dig out my horary books and brush up on the rules

Today's game has a different start time, 3:07pm ... a very different looking chart Away Team - Challenger - Red Sox

• L1 Jupiter (superior) retrograde (weak) in 15 Taurus (term) in 4th (strong but Jays 10th)
• Moon sep trine Pluto in 11th (help from those who support the team, trainers, etc. (?))
• Jupiter app to no one

Home Team - Defender - Blue Jays

• L7 Mercury (inferior) in 8 Virgo (domicile) in 8th (moderate strength) (Mercury coming out from under the Sun and into his own light)
• Moon app conjunct Mars (L4) in 9th (Jays 3rd, Brady says this represents the team's current condition, as its 'siblings' maybe help from their minor leaguers?)
• Mercury app to trine Jupiter (L1)

Giving this one to the Jays mainly as Bonatti claims L1 in L4 is a debility for the challenger, especially if L7 or L4 aspects L1 in the 4th (Mercury is throwing his trine to Jupiter).

A little concerned about the possibility of injuries with Mercury (L7) in the 8th and with the 6th Cusp in Gemini, ruled by Mercury who is throwing his square into the 6th.

I think your system Janegca (or Brady) is interesting on how you may come up with finer details of the game.
I wish there was a software which would come up with a preliminary analysis of the planets motions and positions. Like a grid to avoid missing elements. And maybe giving a score to the teams.
There is also the element of 'weighing' against what you find. That is the art of it.

In the system of Mason, it only answers who wins.
Venturing beyond that is risky business.
And right now, I am questioning some aspects of it.
Like the quincunx and the semi-sextile. Do they really add up something or does it indicate something else, like injuries or adjustments during the game?
What seems reliable is when you have 2 planets in hard aspects by transit connecting to the diurnal AS or MC of a team.
That is the most important aspect of it.
An isolated planet connecting by hard aspect to the AS or MC is not enough. You need more.
And are there other elements that could be added to it like the most elevated planet or the one at the Zenith? What about the midpoints or other Lots?
Everything is perfectible in astrology but it all resides in separating the wheat from th chaff.

Good luck for this afternoon!

Hi Ouranos,

Ouranos wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 4:06 pm I think your system Janegca (or Brady) is interesting on how you may come up with finer details of the game.
I wish there was a software which would come up with a preliminary analysis of the planets motions and positions. Like a grid to avoid missing elements. And maybe giving a score to the teams.
There is also the element of 'weighing' against what you find. That is the art of it.

I have tried using Cosmodynes or Astrodynes but have not found them to be consistently accurate. I did use them to check yesterday's game but they gave 205.1912 power points for Boston (sum of points for 1st and 10th) and 181.6195 power points for Jays (sum of 7th and 4th); favoring Boston.. I have never had much luck with "point" systems; tried using Almutens for a number of years (following Zoller) but did not find they helped sort things out enough to make their use worthwhile.

Ouranos wrote: In the system of Mason, it only answers who wins.
Venturing beyond that is risky business.
And right now, I am questioning some aspects of it.
Like the quincunx and the semi-sextile. Do they really add up something or does it indicate something else, like injuries or adjustments during the game?

I'm finding the mitigations help in sorting out which inconjuncts and semi-sextile's are apt to be effective and am beginning to think those that are not mitigated are truly averse; so an unmitigated inconjunct from a benefic is virtually of no help while one from a malefic can be extra damaging as it truly has no concern for the native's welfare. Although I'm not certain on this yet, just an approach I'm trying out.

I meant to ask you, do you always use the 1st game of the season, even if it's an "away" game. Given that it acts as a "natal" chart I would have thought the first home game of the season might be more appropriate; or maybe both? One for how they will fare at home, the other for away games? I've been tempted to look at Houston (leading the pack) and Kansas (bottom of the pack) to see how they fare with Mason's system.

Ouranos wrote: What seems reliable is when you have 2 planets in hard aspects by transit connecting to the diurnal AS or MC of a team.
That is the most important aspect of it.
An isolated planet connecting by hard aspect to the AS or MC is not enough. You need more.

Yes, I find that too. It's rarely one aspect on its own that sets things off; it may set a tone but to fully manifest there must be supporting elements of a similar nature. Sometimes it feels that first the scene must be set before the main event can happen.

Ouranos wrote: And are there other elements that could be added to it like the most elevated planet or the one at the Zenith? What about the midpoints or other Lots?
Everything is perfectible in astrology but it all resides in separating the wheat from th chaff.

I try to add as little as I can possibly get away with...I have enough trouble with 12 houses, 12 signs, 10 planets and the Ptolemic aspects plus the occasional lot....lol

Ouranos wrote: Good luck for this afternoon!

It was lucky for both of us, Jays won, although it took them forever. Post to follow.

I feel the need to add a tag line to my profile. Always liked an old Egyptian one I came across years ago, "May god stand between you and harm in all the empty places that you walk."

Jays win 3-4.

What a totally insane game. The pitching and defence was excellent, the hitting and base running awareness was shite.

It started out as a pitching duel. Bassit (Toronto), went 7 innings, gave up 4 hits and 2 runs. Sale (Boston), who pitched 6 innings, came out for the 7th and gave up a home run to Vladdy to tie the game with no outs, coach called for a new pitcher. The Jays loaded the bases, Clement (a call up) pitch hit for Kiermaier, popped up, and stranded 3. At the end of the 7th they were tied 2-2.

In the 8th Jays had two on, 1 and 2nd, Schneider hit a line drive to right field – Bichette was half way up the line, off the bag on contact; had to tag when the ball was caught and had no time to score. Jays stranded 2, still tied.

There was a delay of about 15 minutes between the 8th and 9th as the home plate umpire, who had been hit three times by foul balls over the course of the game (once to the collar bone, another to the chest, and the last to his face) had to leave the game. Delay was to work out how the remaining umpires would handle the field.

The 9th started at approximately 5:45pm. Ended still tied 2-2.

10th inning, Jays load the bases again, Merrifield chases an outside pitch and strikes-out. 3 stranded. Still tied.

11th inning, Boston scores 1. Score is 3-2. Varsho scores on a line drive out by Bichette. Game is tied again, 3-3.

12th inning no runs. Game still tied at 3-3.

13th inning. Vladdy is on 2nd. Schneider hits another line drive to center. Vladdy is off the bag, watches the play and on the catch has to tag (more lack of base running awareness), he does manage to advance on the next play. Merrifield hits a weak ball towards 3rd Vladdy manages to score. The Jays walk it off at 7:08, 4hrs and 1 minute after the game start. Final score 3-4 Jays.

I was watching all this with one eye on the chart thinking what the...is going on. Thought that Jupiter in the 4th meant Jays would have everything under control but it was not to be. Why? And why the extra innings? Here's what I've puzzled out, for what it's worth:

• Poor Execution (hitting & base running) - 24 Aries is on the 4th (Jays 10th) ruled by Mars in 13 Libra in opposition to Aries but in the 9th so averse to the 4th. The Moon was applying to conjunct Mars so he is “given” to L7 but the aversion and detriment indicates the help is not effectively given hence the ineffectual hitting and base running (Mars is in the 3rd from the 7th. Brady says the third represents “the condition of the team”. The collective team is not in great shape, Mars being cadent and in detriment. As well, the 9th is ruled by L7 (Mercury) and Mars is throwing his square to the 7th so he creates obstacles the team needs to overcome.
• Injury to Home Plate Umpire – I thought their might be an injury on one of the teams but it didn't occur to me that an umpire might be injured. Looking at the chart the Sun (authority) in the 9th (law, courts) could represent an umpire (he does lay down the “law” behind the plate). He rules the 8th (harm) and throws his square to the 6th (injury) and trines Uranus (unexpected) in the 5th (risk).
• Extra Innings – Saturn is normally the one who brings delays. He looks fairly innocent here being at 2 Pisces in the 2nd with no one close to joining with him. So I decided to take a look at timing based on primary motion. He'd meet with the Asc in roughly 3 1/2 hours (using Astro-Seek OA tables for 43N38, Saturn's OA is 344.43 – Asc OA 292.21=52.22 x 4'=208.88 / 60) so around 6:37 PM. His declination is 12 S 18 so 4hrs is not too much of a stretch.

Anyway, just glad they finally managed to win but oh boy, they had me worried, thought I might have to borrow Ouranos' guillotine!
I will leave tomorrow's game until tomorrow. Another different looking chart as it is scheduled to start at 1:37pm EST.

I meant to ask you, do you always use the 1st game of the season, even if it's an "away" game. Given that it acts as a "natal" chart I would have thought the first home game of the season might be more appropriate; or maybe both? One for how they will fare at home, the other for away games?

Mason says to cast a chart for when the team plays its first official game of the season.
A problem with this system is when the 2 teams meet again during the season, they will have the same chart. So you skip or you draw an event chart.

And I agree with you when you say 'I try to add as little as I can possibly get away with'.
The whole idea is to go to what stands out. And overall, the game was exciting.
I will see what tomorrow has in store for the 2 teams if I have time. Some obligations and the game is early in the afternoon.
I will follow up.

Take care,
Ouranos