This is a chart about a long distance relationship, that may be dead now.
There are 3 main characters in the scene. The querent, signified by Venus, the girl he is in love with, who is away, Mars. The girl?s (ex?)boyfriend and(or)best-friend, witch I beleave is signified by sapturn.

The deal is I dont know if this ex-boyfriend person should be looked for in the 11th(5th from 7th, like romantic atachment of the girl) or the 5th(11th from 7th). I incline myself to the second. I know their relationship was, at least in the last year or so, based mostly on friendship and respect...
And I think(though its hard to be sure here) that the girl doesnt see him as a boyfriend anymore. She told the querent everything romantic was over between them, but recent ocorrences made this seem uncertain.

The querent entered the scene recently. About 2 months ago. He had a entremely intense and passionate affair with this girl and they constructed a future together, in their minds, in another country, witch happens to be the native place of her (ex?)boyfriend.

She would go first, he would follow her in September. The (ex?)boyfriend of her went to visit, and they aparently had a terrible conflict, when he found out about her new relationship.
The girl always refered to this exboyfriend as a best friend. There was deep respect and they stayed together for 4 years or so. He seems to be very important to her, to the point she broke her new relationship by email, in an extrimely abrupt and crude way, that leaved the querent desolated.

Aparently the girl is also desolated, and the ex boyfriend is not better.
I beleave this ex boyfriend/bestfriend is ignoring her, and this causes her great pain, and guilt.

Both Mars and Venus in the 12th, poorly dignified. The moon in her fall, in Scorpio. I think this simbolizes well the desperate situation of the querent, as well as her`s. Sapturn is also in a complicate situation, in the last degree of Virgo, again, in the 12th. I take this as the ex, 11th from the 7th, as best friend, but also ruler of the 5th, the relationship.

Venus is going after Mars. The querent tried to talk to the girl but she refuses(running away from him). Mars is going after Sapturn. Mars gets to Sapturn before Venus gets to Mars. Does that mean that the subject represented in the chart by Sapturn will impede the relationship?s sequence, or maybe it could be read as something that has to take place before the relationship can reasume? Like to clarify things with Sapturn?

Also, Sapturn leaves Virgo the day he(exboyfriend) returns(leave the city where she is now).

Will She call on the querent after that? Will they get back together?

Hello Matchhead

Welcome back to the forum.

How interesting that Saturn changes sign on that very day, and what a tangled and emotional situation it sounds. No wonder the Moon is fallen and the 12th house is involved!

You asked

Will She call on the querent after that? Will they get back together?

As the astrologer, you 'own' the chart and the answers come through you and your reading, while we can comment on your answer or provide alternative views of things or point to helpful articles or references etc, or lay more emphasis on things that could be drawn out further, so you'd need to have a crack at it first and then we can pitch in.

On another topic, I've often wondered how your flatmate/housemate situation turned out in the end? You've obviously survived the drama! You were looking for a new place for yourself. Did that go ahead and are you now better placed or did your flatmate 'lose' the 'battle'?!

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5067

Regards

H.

Will She call on the querent after that? Will they get back together?

I agree with Handn that you should always try to connect with the chart and come to a conclusion on your own, since you are the reader, although it sounds like you have a bit of a grasp on the influences and your general impression is that they will be separated until the "friend" leaves town, since the Saturn sign change occurs around that time?

I'm not an expert, but I would try to keep things simple to start. Whenever someone asks me about the potential for the other person to be the one to bring things back together for them, I immediately wonder about that person's accidental and essential dignity and whatever sort of aspect is between them, also who applies to whom. Accidental dignity, in occurrence with aspect, especially seems to show inclination to act, even without essential dignity (although essential dignity would help the event be of better intentions).

Aparently the girl is also desolated, and the ex boyfriend is not better.
I beleave this ex boyfriend/bestfriend is ignoring her, and this causes her great pain, and guilt.

I am confused by this ex boyfriend that she is supposedly saying is only a friend. I had to re-read your opening several times. Why would she let him come between her and this Venus person if he is only a friend and why would she be ?with? him for 4 yrs? What does ?with? mean here for her?

Does he just not like Venus or does he wish Mars to not be with anyone? No one here seems blameless, but Saturn?s natural signification, to me, seems to be of a bad influence (perhaps even a bad person) ? peregrine, in the 12th (with Joy!), ruling the 5th and coming between Mars and Venus, who are his natural enemies too. Maybe I am reading into this wrong, but Saturn is giving me the impression of someone who is unhappy and wants to make Mars unhappy (and also Venus)?

There is a horary up in the forum with almost the same significators involved, just in different houses and flipped rulers, so I would recommend looking at that. If you are assigning Saturn as the third party, the other boyfriend, do you think that Mars is happier with Saturn, a natural enemy, or with Venus, the only planet she (Mars) has a natural friendship with? Saturn clearly seems to be something coming between them though and he wouldn?t be a great influence on any party here. He seems to be causing Mars a lot of pain, as you rightly mentioned.

Since the quesited, Mars, the woman, is the slower body (Mars is slower than Venus here, and also usually), we wouldn't normally expect Mars to bring something to Venus, it would be Venus that would more likely have to do something. So that answers your question right there. In the table that Deborah has up on Bonatti's usage of reception and different types of aspects, the easiest way for an event to come about is when the quesited applies to the querent and there is a reception (unless the aspect is a conjunction or a trine, which doesn't usually require reception). Here we see that the quesited does not apply to the querent and there is also no proper reception. Venus is in fall and triplicity in Virgo, which means he probably cannot receive Mars properly and Venus also applies to Mars, but there is an evasion because Mars enters Libra before Venus can get to her. Venus also seems to be very confused and conflicted based on his fall/triplity placement ? Venus in Virgo usually makes me think of a man uncommitted in love or is very confused about what he wants (both Venus and Moon are also in aversion to the ASC, which might point to this too), as is the case in the other horary, although this time Saturn is not his lover, it seems to be Mars?. Mars has term, so she seems to be the most essentially straight person involved. You should also look into the future to see if Saturn prohibits, as you rightly did. If a planet comes between Venus and Mars before they can aspect, that is a prohibition and denies the coming together. Does that mean Mars and Venus will never be together? Not necessarily if other factors are good, but here they don't look so good. I will say though that the Moon is also prohibitory for Mars-Saturn here. Did you notice this? Moon applies to Mars before Mars gets to Saturn.

Mars is accidentally debilitated in a cadent house, and as a student of horary you should know that a cadent house is the most unlikely to show movement towards something, especially the 12th. Cadent people often feel trapped. Saturn is also a natural inhibitor or slowing agent in general. In the 12th he has a lot of fun because that's where he more naturally likes to cause sorrow (his Joy is the 12th), which he is good at. Mars (and also Venus) seems very unhappy and is conjunct the 5th ruler Saturn. I have seen Saturn rule the 5th house in a lot of separation horaries and it tends to have the same sort of signification - a feeling of unrequited love, obstacles coming between people or a sad separation. Does Mars still care for Venus? I honestly wouldn't doubt it, but does Mars seem inclined to do something about it? I wouldn't be confident. What types of feelings come to mind when you think of Mars in Virgo in the 12th/Aries ASC also? Maybe this person is angry, sad, and depressed. It sounds like there needs to be some apologizing or at least some talking and Mars doesn't seem like she's feeling like she wants to do that with Venus. If he does contact her, I am not so sure she'd be open to it. Venus and Mars are both disposited by Mercury, which might relate to geographical separation (rules 9th), but also maybe communication problems. Moon-Mercury squares can be emotional disturbances where people don't listen properly to one another but to their hyper emotions.

The Moon is a co-sig for the querent and the question and we do see Mars receiving Moon, and Moon applies to sextile Mars, but, like Venus, Moon is in fall, and sextiles without a good reception require some work, especially in these types of houses. Another thing I usually think of when I see a planet in fall is that they don't behave properly (they can do things that make the situation worse) and don't have a lot of hope in the question. So I personally would recommend that if Venus does feel like getting back in touch with Mars, that they do so with good intentions and that they be sure not to defeat their own purposes. Moon applies to Mars in a friendly sextile, where there isn't a malice or ill will intended, but Moon doesn't receive Mars and he (Moon) is in fall, so he comes to Mars from fall and she (Mars) brings him (Moon) to a place where she is in face but where Moon is peregrine, while Moon brings Mars to a place of domicile but where Moon is again in fall. All of this is dysfunctional. Mars is the better influence because she receives Moon and is also at least with some minor essential dignity, but I think that Moon might be disappointed with the outcome or would give up maybe. Since Mars is "running away" from Venus, as you rightly picked up on, this might be more testimony that there is unlikely to be a successful union here.

Another thing that's important to look at is Moon's last aspect with Mercury and making sense of what that means. You mentioned a geographical separation and Mercury rules the 9th. And what does the Moon-Sun aspect tell you (it happens between Moon-Mars and Moon-Saturn)? You can never ignore other planets and aspects because they can have a lot of meaning.

Anyway, I hope things might end in a good way. There are moveable angles, so that might speed things up a bit for an outcome, although cadent placements like that tend to be slow-going or no real resolution. Moon succeedent and fixed (Moon-Mars) is usually in years (1 degree = 1 yr).