Skyscript Astrology Forum

I'd just like to outline here how I think the manner of her death is shown in her nativity.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gustafson,_Abigail



I can produce references if required but most of what I'm going to use comes from the Book of Aristotle as translated by Benjamin Dykes.

We are advised to intially look to the 8th house and its lord to describe the death. The 8th cusp is in Sagittarius and I notice straight away that it is being overcome by square by Saturn who is out of sect and within 1 degree of a sextile with Mercury, who himself is in a watery, violent sign. Lord of the 8th, Jupiter, is conjoined Mars closely and again suggest a violent death due to Mars' inherent nature.

We are next advised to look to the Lot of Death which falls at 23 Capricorn. If the lot is without benefic influence, we can expect a violent death. Both benefics are in aversion to the lot and would reaffirm what the 8th house was telling us. Saturn again comes up as he rules the lot while the Lot is in partile opposition to the watery Moon in a watery sign of Cancer - strong testimony of a watery end. Another is that this same Moon is conjoined the 4th house cusp and she is without the regard of the benefics.

Putting it together we have strong suggestions of a violent death with a Saturnian feel mixed with water.

Now to time it.

I am a little spilt on which light to use as Hyleg but for this purpose, it doesn't matter too much as they are both directed to Jupiter's bounds at the time of death making Juipiter the distributor.

Jupiter is lord of the 8th in the 4th and conjoined Mars, so we have some testimony for harm to the native in this period. We also have to look at the revolution for this year and see what Jupiter is doing there as this will modify his natal promise. Jupiter is in the revolution ASC conjoined Mars. This is a repetition of the natal figure and happens in the sign opposite within a few degrees, so it is a very powerful testimony of Jupiter's natal promise i.e. a violent death. Something unique to the revolution is Saturn overcoming square this combination which will only add to the testimony of violent death due to Saturn's previously mentioned significations. The place of the distributor's bound are also important and this makes me go for Moon as Hyleg as this revolution Mars/Jupiter/Saturn combination falls in a stake of the Moon's current bounds placed in Leo. All in all, the distributor suggests danger to the life and doubly so since Jupiter is without a partner in his time-lordship since there has been no direction of a planetary body or ray to the Hyleg.

Next we must look to the profected ASC. This actually falls in Sagittarius, the natal 8th, and this makes Jupiter the lord of the year. Everything I have just said about him is now intensified even more. The chart is mirroring the life now. I also note that Venus is in Sagittarius and will add colour to the significations of the year. Normally a benefic would help the native but I see the ASC lord placed in the 8th being activated as more testimony of death than any sort of help, especially with what Jupiter is bringing.

Abigail died on the 1st of December 1987. By this time the profected ASC moving 30 degrees a year has moved into Capricorn, so Jupiter and Saturn should be noted for timing.

Just a few days before, Saturn went under the beams in the sign of the monthly profected ASC, while the profected ASC moving 30 degrees a year is around haf a degree short of the natal Lot of Death. Another astrologer I know is partial to directing the revolution ASC around the revolution as Abu Ma'shar suggests, I note that the ASC reached the sextile of Saturn on the day of her death.

I think it is quite clear from Saturn's influence on the 8th house, his lordship of the Lot of Death and his role in timing the death that, with the correct support, he can bring death by drowning.

Thank you Konrad, that was a very interesting analysis. Although my choice of hyleg is different, I agree with most of your points. One might add that Venus as ruler of the ascendant in the 8th is separating from a trine with Jupiter, her dispositor. This brings to mind a statement from Masha'allah's On Reception, that such a separation is 'a horrible situation'. I suppose the idea is that Jupiter would protect Venus because of the reception between them, but now that protection is withdrawn.

Yes, well spotted with Jupiter and Venus, that slipped my notice. I had a small feeling you may have disagreed with the choice of Hyleg but Valens does allow for it to be under the horizon, so I'm not completely tearing up the past! I don't really understand why the Hyleg has to be above the horizon anyway.

I may post William's analysis later if I get the time. Interestingly, his lord of the year is also that Saturn going under the beams at the time of death.

Very well done analysis Konrad

I just want to comment that it is wonderful to see how someone is actually applying the techniques of the ancients, instead of just talking about them.

It's amazing how Lahiri Ayanamsa is almost without mistake in giving more dense time of the events (especially in a particular year).

I'm still 'testing' the usage of the Lahiri, but this kind of analysis are helping me to check the testimonies for pro and contra using it instead of tropical on a constant basis [I'm still 'here and there', tropical habits are hard to give away ].

It would be interesting to check the same chart in tropical to see what are the results there.

I will now outline my take on William Gustafson's death.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gustafson,_William




Firstly, I'd just ike to say I will use the Moon as Hyleg on this occasion as I don't ascribe to a standard degree limit for houses, nor do I much care for the hyleg needing to aspect the ASC. Controversial, I know. Besides, Valens does state a 2nd house Moon will predominate over a cadent Sun.

Just a quick check for violent death by drowning in the nativity. Pisces, a wet sign, is on the cusp of the 8th, closely overcome by Mars without a benefic aspect. Jupiter lords and is combust and cadent. Adding to the watery nature of Pisces, we have the Moon in partile opposition to the 8th cusp. I note the IC is also a watery, violent sign. As for the Saturnian aspect of the death, he is partiley opposed to the Lot of Death at 7 Aries and the Moon closely squares Mars who lords it. More water. We have some good indication here of a violent Saturnian death via water, just as Abigail had.

It has been mentioned already but let me point out that the Moon, either as Hyleg or general significator of the body, is severely afflicted. She is in partile square to Mars without the aspect of the benefics. Both of these benefics are cadent and combust as the ASC lord is cadent and in his fall. None of this is conducive to a long-life.

As for the timing, the Moon was in Jupiter's bounds at the time of death. Jupiter, as we have stated, rules the natal 8th and is cadent and combust. This is a flag that this time won't be good for the native's earthly existence. I think the whole of Virgo (the place of the bounds) being without the regard of the benefics is very dangerous and, if you consider planetary orbs, Mars casts his ray directly into them by square. In the 1987 revolution, Jupiter is transiting the natal 8th house, Pisces, partiley opposed to Mars who is transiting Virgo where the bounds are and the natal Moon. The testimonies are building up for a dangerous year.

The profected ASC was in Capricorn making Saturn lord of the year. This activates Saturn's opposition to the natal Lot of Death. Unless I'm missing something, I don't think Saturn natally is causing too much harm other than being the malefic contrary to sect and closely associated with the Lot of Death but the distributor Jupiter, as it is in both times, can cause enough trouble for such a chart as William's which doesn't suggest long life anyway. I do notice that the revolution 8th lord, Mercury, is closely transiting the lord of the year Saturn while Saturn transits the natal 4th at the time of the revolution. Saturn is also closely applying to the natal 8th lord Jupiter at the time of the revolution.

He died on the 1st of December 1987. At this time, just as in Abigail's chart, Saturn had gone under the beams a few days before. At the same time, you have the ruler of the natal Lot of Death, Mars, transiting Saturn's natal position in a stake of both the yearly and monthly profected ASC.

Ile wrote:Very well done analysis Konrad

I just want to comment that it is wonderful to see how someone is actually applying the techniques of the ancients, instead of just talking about them.

It's amazing how Lahiri Ayanamsa is almost without mistake in giving more dense time of the events (especially in a particular year).

I'm still 'testing' the usage of the Lahiri, but this kind of analysis are helping me to check the testimonies for pro and contra using it instead of tropical on a constant basis [I'm still 'here and there', tropical habits are hard to give away ].

It would be interesting to check the same chart in tropical to see what are the results there.

Thanks Ile. Your thoughts on Lahiri showing the timing with much more depth is something I agree with completely. I would be interested to see what you come up with tropically too.